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[gregor]

Cannons use explosive bullets - helps with the aiming and you can kill more in the same shot.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Yes, but HE ammo deals less actual damage than the AP type. It's better to use AP and target better - your soldiers' accuracy will improve more that way.

[Japo]

Originally Posted by Eagle of Fire

You are not looking at the whole picture though. I've never seen someone with a pistol down a Grey in a single shot (albeit I have to admit I hardly ever used the pistols) while I've seen it plenty of times with a riffle.

Well maths don't lie, I already said that according to the UFOpedia the power of a single shot from a pistol (26) is nearly the same as from the rifle (30), while it's quite cheaper in terms of TUs. The only reliable way of deciding your equipment and tactics is paying attention to the UFOpedia's numbers, not to subjective impressions. These numbers tell me that rifles are never a good choice compared to pistols (however puny both these are compared to advanced weapons), that cannons' power don't make up either for their lousy accuracy and huge TU spending, that laser rifles are better than heavy laser, and that plasma rifles aren't superior to laser rifles, but heavy plasma are.

If an alien wasn't downed by a pistol shot with 26 damage (and one-hit kills are possible for the less tough ones as they are with rifles), chances are that it wouldn't be downed by a rifle with 30 damage either. If you shoot at an alien and don't kill it, it will retaliate, but the same with a pistol as with a rifle; if you fail it will retaliate the same, and you can always get unlucky with a damage roll and I've even seen sectoids survive one heavy plasma hit quite a number of times. That's why the only safe practice is shooting with a different soldier than the one who spotted the alien, so he's beyond the alien's sight. (I'm not saying this makes sense, but it's how the game's made.)

I'm not particularly fond of grenades, I only use them when they give me better odds than other weapons. At the start of the game they're particularly necessary, because pistols (and rifles alike) are puny against terror weapons such as cyberdiscs and reapers. Besides at that time your soldiers will be bad marksmen and a dozen of them may all fail when trying their luck shooting for a full turn at an alien far away. Once you get laser or plasma they're not that necessary, but they can still come in handy in particular situations. Moreover grenades are preferable to other area-of-effect weapons (except blaster launcher of course) because: they don't need a specific launher and every soldier can carry them; and even if they're thrown with bad skill they never land so far that the enemy isn't affected, whereas rockets and other explosive projectiles will simply fly by the enemy not damaging it in the least if you fail, unless you get lucky and hit another nearby obstacle, that is if you're not in the open. As for equipment, it's not burnt when you kill its bearer with grenades: it will be destroyed every time however if you cause a second explosion over the dead body and the dropped equipment.

[Eagle of Fire]

You guys always make me laugh when guys like you make such calculations and assume it's the absolute truth. Not that there is no truth to it, but anyways... If there is something I learned in my gaming days is that you never have 100% of the informations available to you in a game. For example, the fact that you win some extra accuracy if you kneel or lose some accuracy if you carry something in your offhand while holding a two hand weapon is extremely badly documented, if at all. Things like that throw calculation off most of the time.

I am certainly not dissing your way of playing, but it's certainly not the one I'd use. The Laser Vs Plasma argument, for example, been up since almost the first day UFO was released and is still raging on to this date....

By the way, did you know that most big aliens are particularly resistant to explosions? The only way to really hurt them with a grenade is to aim exactly where they are so the full blast hit them...

[gregor]

I like grenades. first turn i have some people throw flares and look arround (or just look arround) and then i spray the place with grenades. also for small rooms i throw one or two inside...

I haven't played UFO so much (mostly i played XCOM). in that one it is particulary useful to train them with grenades for terror sites (where oyu can't use rocket launchers). it pays a bit to have later you man being able to throw powerfull grenade through the whole map.

so i implied same tactics here in UFO. although i have to admit UFO has more obstacles. But i usually throw grenades to open walls r hit aliens that are hiding behind it. if you can't see it but you know they are there just throw a grenade inside and have someone aim in that place in case alien survives.

Also alines always hide in certain places so if you throw the grenades there chances are you will hit something. and that's also the reason why i use cannons a lot. i shoot in some place and if there is no sound i throw a grenade and then they die.

[Japo]

Originally Posted by Eagle of Fire

You guys always make me laugh when guys like you make such calculations and assume it's the absolute truth. Not that there is no truth to it, but anyways... If there is something I learned in my gaming days is that you never have 100% of the informations available to you in a game. For example, the fact that you win some extra accuracy if you kneel or lose some accuracy if you carry something in your offhand while holding a two hand weapon is extremely badly documented, if at all. Things like that throw calculation off most of the time.

Well these figures are the same that the game uses to calculate your success or failure, so they are meaningful, you can disregard them if you want but then you won't be able to know which option is really better, of course you can rely on personal taste instead. About the bonus for kneeling and the penalty for one hand, it's too easy to calcuate them with the accuracy percentages provided when you click on the weapon, they're around 15% and 20% if I remember right. However they don't affect comparisons between different weapons since they're the same for whichever one; only if it's worth it to kneel in a given situation etc. And I don't think this gives pistols any advantage over two-handed weapons, it's only 2 TUs to drop whatever a soldier has in one hand (he can pick it up again later) whenever he must shoot so he's not penalized for the weapon in the other.

These calculations are the only way to know each weapon's worth and compare them, everything else is random rolls and range modifiers (again equal for all weapons). The fact that many people won't make them doesn't mean they're not the only objective measure of the weapons' usefulness.

[Eagle of Fire]

What you just said is exactly what make you mathematicians reasoning flawed. "It's only 2 TU to drop it". Yeah, but then you need to pick it up again. And then, you might actually need those 2 TU at that particular time to save the life of your other squaddy... Those odds, you fail to calculate.

If we weed out both of our reasoning to what exactly make the difference between you and me, I'm willing to wage it all come down to the fact that all my own reasoning is done with suffering the fewer casualties possible, while you have effeciency in your top priority.

[another_guest]

Well, if anything I think these discussions mean that they made most of the weapons well-balanced and besides that created a game that outlived its supposed successors by many years.

[AnarchyMaster]

this is possibly the best game out


I've had loads of fun with it for ages, would be awsome if it had a multiplayer option!

[manyfingers]

see ufo 2000 ?