Go Back   Forums > Abandonia.com > Games Discussion
Memberlist Forum Rules Today's Posts
Search Forums:
Click here to use Advanced Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20-04-2010, 03:22 AM   #1
Nivm
Guest
Default Random Information and Query

I can't wait for the patch!

Observations and Questions:
It gets tedious after a while, but I've noticed that most of the time, 1-3 figures in towns can be taken of the current project to farm without changing the time until it's finished. Also, don't forget your refund after buying any building! When the bar is full, or near full, you can put everyone on farming for that last month.
I begin the game with books in all but death, Warlord, Alchemy, and Node Mastery. My military is never larger than my number of towns, but I use Warlord because it allows elven archers or halfling slingers to match up to the power of heroes. Oh, and Node Mastery doubles the amount of power you get from nodes, not adds 15%. Thus turning a 5 magic node into a 10 magic node. And that my mana pool is around 800 by end game, and only need to take one or two nodes in early game.
+To Hit bonuses, and other percent bonuses, are very effective on unit groups, and not so effective on heroes. Holy Weapon and Eldritch Weapon can be used together, and I often do.
Do not examine a character who has a whole load of different abilities. Pulling up the information for any mislabeled or misnumbered powers results in a crash. Would be a good thing to put on that patch.
By placing Engineers on a Planar Tower, setting a road to be built from it, then changing the Engineers' plane, will allow that road to be built over water or anything at the time cost of what you first selected. Maga project bridges! (So yes, they work.)
I noticed that if you take an opponents fortress, then defeat their last town before they cast the Spell of Return, you will get the treasure and graphic for banishing them like they had returned.

What determines the value of the treasure you get from a creep camp or node? It seems to be influenced by too many things to count, and my testing has been inconclusive.
How does one get "mana lock"? It seems to randomly happen sometimes.
Why does visiting Sorcery nodes occasionally dispel enchantments? I get no message about it, and note nothing of else of interest.
When placing units with an Air Mage, sometimes the air mage's movement speed is used, sometimes he is as slow as the slowest unit. Why determines this?
It was stated here that flying units will not be attacked by Great Wyrms. I have relied on this twice, and both time regretted it. Is there some other qualifier required?
                       
Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 12:56 AM   #2
Pex
Game Wizzard
 
Pex's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivm View Post
I can't wait for the patch!
Observations and Questions:
It gets tedious after a while, but I've noticed that most of the time, 1-3 figures in towns can be taken of the current project to farm without changing the time until it's finished. Also, don't forget your refund after buying any building! When the bar is full, or near full, you can put everyone on farming for that last month.
I was doing this, but after a while (especially when you have enough food and gold) it becomes a bother to keep changine back and forth. Usually after I conquer several towns a few only work on trading goods while the rest produce buildings and units. So if I need more food, I turn workers from those trading towns into farmers.
Quote:
I begin the game with books in all but death, Warlord, Alchemy, and Node Mastery. My military is never larger than my number of towns, but I use Warlord because it allows elven archers or halfling slingers to match up to the power of heroes. Oh, and Node Mastery doubles the amount of power you get from nodes, not adds 15%. Thus turning a 5 magic node into a 10 magic node. And that my mana pool is around 800 by end game, and only need to take one or two nodes in early game.
Haven't tried being a Warlord yet. On Hard level (which I'm playing now) some other abilities seem more useful. I might give it a go, though. Although longbowmen and slingers ar quite good even without it. In this last game my tactic was to cast Heroism on longbowmen. They're qame winners.
Quote:
+To Hit bonuses, and other percent bonuses, are very effective on unit groups, and not so effective on heroes. Holy Weapon and Eldritch Weapon can be used together, and I often do.
Agreed.
Quote:
Do not examine a character who has a whole load of different abilities. Pulling up the information for any mislabeled or misnumbered powers results in a crash. Would be a good thing to put on that patch.
I'm not sure what do you mean here. What character? A hero? Or another wizard? Never happened to me, so I don't get it.
Quote:
By placing Engineers on a Planar Tower, setting a road to be built from it, then changing the Engineers' plane, will allow that road to be built over water or anything at the time cost of what you first selected. Maga project bridges! (So yes, they work.)
lol didn't know that But it's obviously a bug rather than something programmers intended to happen.
Quote:
I noticed that if you take an opponents fortress, then defeat their last town before they cast the Spell of Return, you will get the treasure and graphic for banishing them like they had returned.
Both times enemy wizards managed to cast that spell, they also returned before I got to their last city so I had to defeat them again anyway But it seems fair that you get more treasure even if they don't return.
Quote:
What determines the value of the treasure you get from a creep camp or node? It seems to be influenced by too many things to count, and my testing has been inconclusive.
Well, only certain thing is that you always get a spell from an Arcane Tower, though sometimes you get gold or mana crystals or item as well. It's always a spell your wizard is able to learn (as in having enough spell books of that realm), but it doesn't have to be one from the spell book. That makes it useful to attack towers once you did all researches, cause you'll get some spell you couldn't have normally researched.

As for nodes and different lairs, you get better rewards if the node/lair is better defended (cases when you get some fame as well). From what I could see, treasure of every node/lair is predetermined at the beginning of the game, but I think this works only for gold and mana crystals. Items, prisoners and books (as in extra spell books and some trait books that give you additional traits) are still there (predetermined), but it could be any item, any prisoner (not already controled by you or other wizard) and (almost) any book. So, if you like doing some 'legitimate cheating' save your game before attacking place that gives you one of those three and keep attacking it untill you get the exact thing your want

Btw, that (almost) any book is put there cause you can get chaos spell books or book of chaos mastery only from chaos node, and it's similar to sorcery and nature.
Quote:
How does one get "mana lock"? It seems to randomly happen sometimes.
Hmm, what's that?
Quote:
Why does visiting Sorcery nodes occasionally dispel enchantments? I get no message about it, and note nothing of else of interest.
Haven't noticed that. To be honest, I only started using heaps of enchantments now that I'm playing with Life Magic, so I wasn't paying attention.
Quote:
When placing units with an Air Mage, sometimes the air mage's movement speed is used, sometimes he is as slow as the slowest unit. Why determines this?
It's always the speed of the slowest unit. So, I guess in cases when Wind Mage's speed is used, he's the slowest unit. It tends to be a drawback sometimes, especially when your unit of heroes + cavalry and/or rangers can move 4 moves (with pathfinding) and then suddenly with Wind Mage it drops down to 2. Then you give your mage some item to increase his speed, but movement remains 2, cause pathfinding doesn't count for flying and now your rangers are the slowest unit.
Quote:
It was stated here that flying units will not be attacked by Great Wyrms. I have relied on this twice, and both time regretted it. Is there some other qualifier required?
I'm pretty certain they can't attack fliers, but they will retaliate if attacked by a flier in melee. One thing that crosses my mind is that there were some spiders with the wyrm - in which case they cast nets on your fliers and make them ground unit. The other option is that I was wrong in assuming they couldn't attack flying units, in which case I apologise

Btw, indents don't work well on any forum I saw so far, which is why leaving a blank row between paragraphs is recommendend. I learned that hard way myself
__________________

Last edited by Pex; 21-04-2010 at 12:58 AM. Reason: minor fixes
Pex is offline                         Send a private message to Pex
Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 07:58 AM   #3
kyrubb
Guest
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pex View Post
As for nodes and different lairs, you get better rewards if the node/lair is better defended (cases when you get some fame as well).

...

So, I guess in cases when Wind Mage's speed is used, he's the slowest unit.

...

[wyrms] I'm pretty certain they can't attack fliers, but they will retaliate if attacked by a flier in melee.
All three things have been already reported as bugs, although I can confirm only the existence of the first one (items from lairs are not correctly weighed as it should be). You often receive a very good gift from a crap lair which spoils the game development.

I have problems with identifying of both other issues, wyrms contra fliers is mentioned in the FAQ, the other windwalking_sometimes_not_working problem was reported by someone else. If you, Nivm (or anybody else), happen to have a SAVEGAME file with the situations you mentioned, it would help me incredibly in fixing the thing.

(There is no such nuisance as an inconsistently happening bug.)
                       
Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2010, 12:02 AM   #4
Oso
Newbie

 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ,
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivm View Post
I can't wait for the patch!
..
What determines the value of the treasure you get from a creep camp or node? It seems to be influenced by too many things to count, and my testing has been inconclusive.
..
You are absolutely right. It is influenced by many things.

NOTE: The following facts and figures are shamelessly lifted from Prima's Official Master of Magic Strategy Guide.

Each Node, Lair and Tower of Wizardry is generated at the start of each game. 25 normal lairs and 32 weak lairs are randomly distributed between Arcanus and Myrror. In addition, Arcanus gets 16 nodes, Myrror gets 14 nodes and 6 Towers of Wizardry are generated. Please note, no lair/node/tower will ever be stocked with more than 2 types of creatures so while you might see (for example) Wyrms and Sprites or Wyrms and Spiders in a lair/node/tower you will never see Wyrms, Sprites AND Spiders in the same place.

All of the above are stocked with monsters at games start and the monsters do not change during the game as opposed to treasure which is dynamically generated at the time the of the guardians of the lair/node/tower's defeat. That makes it possible to save the game beforehand and “farm” for certain types of treasures by using a save game/fight/reload game cycle until you get something acceptable (the “budget” of the lair/node/tower determining the relative worth/value/rarity of any spells and items present. There is no way to get a certain rarity of spell if that spell doesn't fit into the “budget” but if you are looking to get say, the Green Spell Change Terrain and the lair you just conquered gave up any uncommon spell, then there is an excellent chance you can make the Change Terrain Spell show up as loot by using a save/fight/reload cycle, your spellbook choices and conscience permitting).

The “budget” referred to above is how much mana the computer will spend on stocking the lair/node/tower with monsters/treasure. It is random within certain ranges.

------
The following is laid out in difficulty level:Intro/Easy/Normal/Hard/Impossible.

Towers of Wizardry (Both Planes)
Creatures:175-300/350-600/575-900/700-1200/875-1500
Treasure:350-1500/350-1500/350-1500/350-1500/437-1875

Normal Lairs (Arcanus)
Creatures:25-325/50-750/75-1075/100-1500/125-1825
Treasure:50-1625/50-1791/50-1875/50-1875/62-2281

Normal Lairs (Myrror)
Creatures:50-625/100-1250/150-1875/200-2500/250-3125
Treasure:150-4375/150-4375/150-4375/150-4375/187-5468

Weak Lairs (Arcanus)
Creatures:2-25/5-50/7-75/10-100/12-125
Treasures:50-125/50-125/50-125/50-125/50-156

Weak Lairs (Myrror)
Creatures:2-50/5-100/7-150/10-200/12-250
Treasures:50-350/50-350/50-350/50-350/50-437

Nodes (Weak Magic Setting)
Arcanus
Creatures:15-187/31-375/46-562/62-750/78-937
Treasures:50-935/50-936/50-937/50-937/50-1171

Myrror
Creatures:62-750/125-1500/187-2250/250-300/312-3750
Treasure:187-5250/187-5250/187-5250/187-5250/234-6562

Nodes-Normal Magic Setting:2x Weak Magic numbers for both Planes.
Nodes-Strong Magic Setting:3x Weak Magic numbers for both Planes.
------

Within the various ranges, the computer will pick a random number and that will be the “mana budget” for that particular build.

Example: The computer is stocking a Tower of Wizardry at the Hard Difficulty level (mana range 700-1200) and it randomly picks 1038. That is the maximum amount of mana the computer will use to stock the tower with. Further, it will also generate a random number between 1 and 4 (rolls a d4) and divide the budget by that number. In this case the computer rolls a 3. 1038/3=346 so the computer will NOT spend more than 346 mana on any single summoned creature. Before actually buying the creatures, the color is determined by the following:

------
Tower Of Wizardry:
Black(2 in 6 chance)-White/Red/Green/Blue(1 in 6 chance each).

Ancient Temple/Ancient Ruins/Fallen Temple:
White(1 in 4 chance)-Black(3 in 4 chance)-Red/Green/Blue(no chance).

Mysterious Cave/Dungeon/Abandoned Keep/Monster Lair:
Black/Red/Green(1 in 3 chance each)-White/Blue(no chance).

Chaos Node:Red only.
Nature Node:Green only.
Sorcery Node:Blue only.
-----

In this case, the computer rolls Red(Chaos). To continue with the above example: The most expensive Red summoned creature at or below 346 mana is a Doom Bat (300 mana casting cost). The computer will buy as many of it's top end creatures as it can within its budget up to a maximum of 8 creatures. In this case it can buy 3. 3x300=900, 1038-900=138. Not enough mana left over to buy a 4th Doom Bat. Also, if more than one top end monster is purchased there is a 50% chance the computer will “throw” one back. In this case that is what happens, the computer gives one Doom Bat back and recoups the mana. So we stand at 2 Doom Bats, 600 mana spent, 438 mana remaining.

Now the computer determines the maximum price for any secondary or minor monsters it will buy buy using a random number between 1 and X (X being 10 minus the number of monsters already purchased) and dividing the remaining mana by that number. In this case the computer rolls a d8 (10-[2 Doom Bats already purchased]=8) and gets a 5. 438/5=87.6. The most expensive Red creature that can be summoned for 87.6 mana or less is the Hell Hound(40 mana casting cost). With the remaining 438 mana the computer can buy 10 Hell Hounds but since we already have 2 Doom Bats and the stacking limit is 9 units, only 7 Hell Hounds can be used and the unspent mana is simply not used.

So in the example above, this particular Tower of Wizardry is guarded by a full stack of 9 Chaos creatures:2-Doom Bats/7-Hell Hounds for a total strength of 880. 2x300(Doom Bats) + 7x40(Hell Hounds) OR 600+280=880 mana spent. This becomes a modifier for use when treasure is generated.

So, we kicked the stuffing out of this Tower, what happens next? Looking at the Treasure Values for a Tower at the hard level we get a range of 350-1500. This is where the strength modifier from the creature shopping comes in. The harder the creatures and the more of the total mana budget spent, the more the computer is going to modify towards the top end of the scale as far as the treasure roll goes. It won't save you from a bad luck random number on treasure but the computer will adjust it up (or down) a ways for a completely out of whack roll to bring it closer be being comparable with the monsters that you defeated.

In this case, the computer gets a value of 1050 for the Raw Treasure roll.

A few caveats before I get into the nuts and bolts here.

The Myrran Ability will never be awarded as loot. Obvious maybe but it is a retort and they do get awarded as loot.

Infernal Power will never be awarded to players with White Spells books and vice versa with Divine Power. Neither can you be awarded a White Spell Book if you already have a Black one. The reverse is true here as well.

Artifacts (from the ITEMDAT.LBX file) that cost more than 3000 mana to make will NEVER be awarded as loot for an Artifact pick. The only was to get an unlimited power Artifact as loot is to be awarded a Special Ability(skill retort) or a Spell Book and be maxed out on Wizards Abilities or Spell Books for whatever reason. (Each player is limited to 6 abilities and 13 spell books).

Prisoners will not be awarded if you have a full stack and prisoners are limited to the ones that can be summoned by the “Summon Hero” Spell.

When conquering a Tower of Wizardry, the first item rolled is automatically a spell.

No more than 1 spell will ever be awarded as loot.

Anytime a Special is rolled, all other loot is discarded(the Strategy Guide is unclear here, whether it discards all loot for that instance or simply stops rolling on the loot table once you get a special is something I can't figure out. I think I can recall games where I got a special and something else in addition to it but am not positive about that-Oso)

------
Format
Chance:Treasure(Qualifying Amount/Spend Amount/Limit)

33.3%:Artifact(300/400-3000/3)

20.0%:Spell
-----:Common(50/50/1)
-----:Uncommon(200/200/1)
-----:Rare(450/450/1)
-----:Very Rare(800/800/1)

13.3%:10-200 Gold(50/200/NA)
13.3%:10-200 Mana(50/200/NA)

13.3%:1 Special(1000/3000/1)
-----:2 Special(2000/3000/2)

06.7%:Prisoner(400/1000/1)
------

Ok, we have 1050 raw points for treasure in this example and since it was a Tower of Wizardry, the first item is always a spell. A roll of 1 to 4 (1=Common,4=Very Rare) gets us a 2. An Uncommon Spell. So the Qualifying amount is 200, we have 1050 so no problem. We get the spell. That brings us down to a point value of 950 (normally an uncommon spell would cost 200 as a spend amount but as we just conquered a Tower there is a 100 point spend amount discount for the first spell roll).

Ok we have 950 points left which is more than 50 points (the computer will stop rolling for loot once less than 50 points of the original raw treasure points remain) so the loot rolls continue. And this roll is also a spell and what's more, it is also an uncommon spell so 200 points are deducted leaving us with 750. But since we can't have more than 1 spell in a pile of loot, the original Uncommon Spell is upgraded to a Very Rare Spell (2+2=4=Very Rare Spell). At this point, any further spell rolls will be ignored. (Again, the Strategy Guide is unclear here. It does not say if another spell roll will be re-rolled or if that becomes a lost roll. It may very well deduct the price of the spell it rolled but you have nothing to show for it. For proof I offer my experience that I have conquered some very tough nodes/lairs late in a game and gotten nothing for it. So if you get something as loot that your points qualify you for but that you cannot use, it may very well just poof away-Oso)

750 points left. More than 50 so we continue. The next roll is a special but the qualifying amount of points is 1000 and we only have 750 so it is re-rolled (<-The Strategy guide seems very clear here. Not enough points to qualify so no points deducted and rolling continues). The next roll Mana Crystals are rolled. The Qualifying Amount of 50 for Mana Crystals is well below 750 so we get some. 90 Crystals are rolled and 200 spend points are taken away from our total leaving 550 usable points.

The next roll gives use a prisoner. Note that to qualify for a prisoner, you need only have 400 usable points but that it costs 1000 to get one. We only have 550 points left but we get the prisoner because we qualify for him/her but it takes our points total to below 50 (well below 50 and into negative numbers actually) so we are done.

To recap:A tower of Wizardry was staffed with 2 Doom Bats and 7 Hell Hounds. For defeating it we received 1 Very Rare Spell, 90 Mana Crystals and a Prisoner.

As stated at the beginning, the monsters will remain the same throughout the game but the treasure isn't generated until the monsters are defeated. So if you saved the game, defeated the monsters and then reloaded that same game and fought again, the treasures might be similar (or not) but they probably won't be exactly the same on the second try.

Some of my own thoughts.

I have noticed there are some things in the Official Strategy Guide that don't quite follow my game experience. One of them is how the treasure is supposed to be generated anew whenever a lair/node/tower is conquered. By the way the book says it, with the exception of Towers of Wizardry which guarantees you a spell, you shouldn't be able to conquer a node or lair that gives you a spell and then reload and expect to get a spell again. Yet it happens all the time. I suspect the “random” part of the treasure generation isn't truly random. In the above example, I suspect that at the time the monsters are purchased for the Tower of Wizardry at least part of the loot is as well. In that it says that TOW#1 will have a very rare spell, some mana and a prisoner when conquered. The dynamic allocation at defeat is limited to what spell it is, the amount of mana and which particular prisoner is granted based on the players setting at start time and what heroes and spells the player already has in his/her possession.

I also suspect that conquering a Tower of Wizardry is the ONLY way to get a spell beyond your spell book ability. Being that you are guaranteed a spell, you may be able to get a rare or very rare spell you shouldn't simply because you may already be in possession of all the spells your spell books will let you have through other lairs/nodes/towers or player trades.

Also, I suspect that if you get a result that says you get a rare or very rare spell as loot and you don't qualify for it you may very well get a lower level spell that you do qualify for providing you don't know them all already. Aside from the Towers of Wizardry, I'm thinking that if you get a spell you don't qualify for by having enough spell books and have no unlearned spells in lower categories, you lose that part of the loot completely. Which may explain why you sometimes come across lairs that you would think should give you loot but you find nothing.
Oso is offline                         Send a private message to Oso
Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2010, 03:42 AM   #5
Pex
Game Wizzard
 
Pex's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivm View Post
_Usually heroes, although some longbowmen and a boat have done it too. It's a glitch that seems to happen after the unit has two or three pages of effects (natural, artifact, enchanted). The names and modifiers of said effects may become scrambled; such as the experience box being replaced with "Legendary (345)" or "Lion Heart +[about 36k]", or just the pictures being switched around. Right clicking on these, or right clicking on the unit in battle, will crash the game. It tends to go away if I ignore it, oddly enough, but very occasionally it will crash bringing the unit into battle.
Ok, I understand now. It never happened to me, but like I told you, never before I used so many enchantments. I'll keep in mind not to go clicking on them if I use too many

Quote:
_Mostly what I've been trying to figure out is if the treasure reward increases if you use a much smaller army (1Hero vs. 5SkyDrakes VS. 4Heroes vs. 5SkyDrakes). I know the fame does, but sometimes it seems like loot does as well. As you can guess, I've been trying to figure out what I can do to increase my chances.
Well, Oso put quite a detailed guide on treasure generating, but it seems to be different to my own experiances. I'll comment on it later in this post, so you can see as well.
Quote:
_I have this rather far goal of trying to acquire everything I could have if there was infinite picks at start. I can't seem to get more than four spell books in every school, and half the abilities. On Hard of course, but I don't think the treasure is better on easy.
According to the Guide you can have maximum of 13 spell books and 6 abilities. I didn't know that. I never go exploring too much - I 'blitzkrieg' enemy capitals as soon as I find them (and have enough troops to do it) and poor AI allows me that. Maybe when those patches come out and the game becomes more balanced, I'll need to focus more on exploring.

Quote:
_It's an enchantment that prevents your other enchantments on a unit from being dispelled. I was casting a stone-skin spell on top of four other spells to get that bit of extra advantage in a node fight, and then when I re-checked statuses I noticed Mana Lock had appeared right below the rest. No idea where it came from.
Either it's some rule we're not aware of, or just another bug

Quote:
The moment I'm thinking of is when I was using my 6 move Air Mage as a ferry for a Pathfinding 2 move army. Moving the army on to the Air Mage's tile should have left them all with 1 movement point (took two moves to get there) yet my Air Mage was still able to take the entire army with his 6 move points (without Pathfinding of course). Although, next turn the entire group was reduced to 2 movement points out on the ocean.
lol definitely a bug

And now to Oso's post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso View Post
NOTE: The following facts and figures are shamelessly lifted from Prima's Official Master of Magic Strategy Guide.
Very detailed. I have one question regarding it, but a few observations regarding your own.

Quote:
Each Node, Lair and Tower of Wizardry is generated at the start of each game. 25 normal lairs and 32 weak lairs are randomly distributed between Arcanus and Myrror. In addition, Arcanus gets 16 nodes, Myrror gets 14 nodes and 6 Towers of Wizardry are generated.
Does this change depending on the size of the land you choose? It's not a hard thing to check, but I thought you may already know the answer.
Quote:
Some of my own thoughts.

I have noticed there are some things in the Official Strategy Guide that don't quite follow my game experience. One of them is how the treasure is supposed to be generated anew whenever a lair/node/tower is conquered. By the way the book says it, with the exception of Towers of Wizardry which guarantees you a spell, you shouldn't be able to conquer a node or lair that gives you a spell and then reload and expect to get a spell again. Yet it happens all the time. I suspect the “random” part of the treasure generation isn't truly random. In the above example, I suspect that at the time the monsters are purchased for the Tower of Wizardry at least part of the loot is as well. In that it says that TOW#1 will have a very rare spell, some mana and a prisoner when conquered. The dynamic allocation at defeat is limited to what spell it is, the amount of mana and which particular prisoner is granted based on the players setting at start time and what heroes and spells the player already has in his/her possession.
I agree with this. In my experience, the nature of the treasure doesn't change (whether it's an item and/or prisoner and/or spell) only the type of the specific treasure (different item and/or prisoner and/or spell. That's why I suggested in the earlier post that you can 'legally cheat' by saving the game before attacking the node/lair/tower and then loading and reconquering it to get different type of treasure. It never happened to me that the place gives a prisoner but when I reload the game it gives me an item or a spell (or any different combo for that matter).

Quote:
I also suspect that conquering a Tower of Wizardry is the ONLY way to get a spell beyond your spell book ability. Being that you are guaranteed a spell, you may be able to get a rare or very rare spell you shouldn't simply because you may already be in possession of all the spells your spell books will let you have through other lairs/nodes/towers or player trades.
I've came to this conclusion as well. That's why I used to conquer only one Tower (just to get the access to different plane) and leave the rest until I progress with my researches.
Quote:
Also, I suspect that if you get a result that says you get a rare or very rare spell as loot and you don't qualify for it you may very well get a lower level spell that you do qualify for providing you don't know them all already. Aside from the Towers of Wizardry, I'm thinking that if you get a spell you don't qualify for by having enough spell books and have no unlearned spells in lower categories, you lose that part of the loot completely. Which may explain why you sometimes come across lairs that you would think should give you loot but you find nothing.
I agree with this. I've noticed that I was getting 'You find absolutely nothing' result only near the end of the game, so it made me believe that it was either a spell of the rarity level that I've already fully researched or a prisoner when I already had 6 heroes. Maybe next time I find a prisoner I may test this and leave that lair for the time I have 6 heroes already.

Another thing that I've noticed was that a particular undefended lair (it has to be a lair cause nodes and towers are always defended) always give you the same amount of gold pieces or mana crystals, even if you keep reloading the game. It never changes the type of treasure either - if it gave you 50 gp first time, it will keep giving you 50gp every time, it will never give you mana instead. That made me believe that the amount of gp or mc you get from lairs/nodes/towers remains the same even when you get other treasure as well, but I never remembered to check it. I might do it at some point. To be honest, I got bored with MoM and decided to give it a break
__________________
Pex is offline                         Send a private message to Pex
Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2010, 04:34 AM   #6
Oso
Newbie

 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ,
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pex View Post
.
.
Does this change depending on the size of the land you choose? It's not a hard thing to check, but I thought you may already know the answer.
.
.
It has never occurred to me to check on my own but, according to the section in the strategy guide, there is no mention made on land mass size. Until I get motivated enough to check on my own I am going to assume that it doesn't matter.

The only difference would be in relative density and then only when talking about the generic sites other than Towers and Nodes. Towers and Nodes have no problem appearing as one square islands in the middle of the Oceans (I have never seen a non-Node or non-Tower lair on its own 1 square island in the ocean at any rate). So the remaining 57 sites would be spread over the land masses on both planes, even at the small land mass setting, I can't see any overcrowding happening.
Oso is offline                         Send a private message to Oso
Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2010, 01:04 AM   #7
Nivm
Guest
Default Antagonally Cleared Confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso View Post
It has never occurred to me to check on my own but, according to the section in the strategy guide, there is no mention made on land mass size. Until I get motivated enough to check on my own I am going to assume that it doesn't matter.
_It does not. I just checked a Nature's Awareness save for Medium and Small. 6 Towers, 14 Myrror Nodes, 16 Arcanus Nodes.

→Specter
_You seem to have misread or not read at all, and although easily remedied, I'll note what hasn't been. (I would ask what game version you are running, but you have told me with a question.)
_I have noticed no difference in the tax money paid when the populace was divided into farmers and workers, and completely to farmers. That, and I was speaking of when there was already a project going, and the value of free gold from management.
_I forgot nothing with the planar towers; when you plan a road on suitable ground, then shift planes*, the road will be built regardless, even over water. *To clarify, you need the view to be on the "invalid" plane when the selection switches to the Engineer's turn. It's safer to select the Engineers on the plane you wish them to build at the beginning of every turn, and to keep the view on that plane at the end of every turn. At least until they finish their first section. You might have to keep doing it if they have the plane-shifting ability.
_Kyrubb already noted the Air Mage drag was a bug. Although I discovered in my current game if all the units are flying regardless (Draconians) the counter will say "0.5" after the flyer's two moves, but I can still move all the supposed distance.

_On the subject of army strength effecting treasure, I haven't noticed any difference when varying the amount of four heroes, a shaman, and two longbowmen troops. When they were all together, and I was testing a Volcano with two Fire Giants and some Hell Hounds, it had a reward of a prisoner, one spell, and 200 mana crystals. Defeating the node with only the Valkyrie of the group provided the exact same reward. The spell gained seemed to about the same value every time, varying from Hell Hounds to Awareness equally.
However, I have never tested how the treasure varies when you lose once while taking out much of their forces then win. This must be done for science. Although not Dwarven Science, this game isn't free enough for that.

_On Hard mode, it seems like creature growth only extends to the weaker creatures; such as adding skeletons or phantom warriors. Does the treasure gained correspond to creature growth on Impossible? Or is it skewed sufficiently downward?

_Kyrubb, I wanted to ask, how do you identify which save file is which when you seem to have more save files that saves in the game? Making a new save doesn't change anything.
I also now assume it is a bug that I managed to achieve 16 spellbooks. Would it be possible to remove the book and ability cap in your mod?

_Is anyone ever entertained by the horrible AI? I was entertained when they had a force that could take one of my outposts, yet decided to attack one troop at a time, making them manageable to my archers.
                       
Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2010, 02:59 AM   #8
Pex
Game Wizzard
 
Pex's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivm View Post
_Is anyone ever entertained by the horrible AI? I was entertained when they had a force that could take one of my outposts, yet decided to attack one troop at a time, making them manageable to my archers.
I had a case when between attacking my city with a single unit of spearmen and my army of 3 heroes and 6 other units (too far to reach the city before the enemy) they decided to attack the latter and of course got smashed.

Another case was when they conquered my city (there was nothing I could've done), but I had to reload the game from that turn because I forgot to change production in another city and made some settlers that I didn't need. I made exactly the same moves (except from changing that production), but in enemy turn they decided not to attack that city but move away from it.

But I belive the best one is this time when I was 'camping' next to an enemy wizard's capital waiting for my other troops to arrive so I could take the city (something I often do). Now, there's no point mentioning that the enemy could've attacked me and crushed me any time with those forces in the capital. What he did though was that he moved out some bowmen units out of the city so he could have space to produce and summon something quite useless (can't remember what). So I crushed him the next turn without those troops I was waiting for.
__________________
Pex is offline                         Send a private message to Pex
Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2010, 12:34 AM   #9
kyrubb
Guest
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivm View Post
_Kyrubb, I wanted to ask, how do you identify which save file is which when you seem to have more save files that saves in the game? Making a new save doesn't change anything.
I am not sure if I understand your question. Saves are put in the save#.gam files in the MoM directory, where # is the number of the save slot in the Game screen. If you make a new save, you overwrite automatically the old one.

Now, if you want to help me find the bugs, once you witness something weird, you go immediately (without quitting) to the MoM directory, grab your last save, rename or copy it to something like windwalking_bug.gam. And contact me afterwards ****** very grateful reaction from me.

Quote:
I also now assume it is a bug that I managed to achieve 16 spellbooks. Would it be possible to remove the book and ability cap in your mod?
"My mod" is not a mod. It is a simple attempt to correct the in-game bugs and remove the main AI blunders and stupidities. So no modding.
                       
Reply With Quote
Reply


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Master of Magic won't install earlofwessex Troubleshooting 2 21-04-2008 02:34 PM
Master Of Magic pratputajao Troubleshooting 0 03-07-2007 04:33 AM
Master Of Magic kiotee Troubleshooting 1 08-05-2006 10:49 PM
Master Of Magic TyLord Troubleshooting 1 09-04-2005 07:23 AM
Master Of Magic Multiplayer Help caesar007 Forum Games 0 22-02-2005 10:25 PM


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump
 


The current time is 02:26 PM (GMT)

 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.