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[The Fifth Horseman]

Sticking a game to a games mag DOES NOT make it public domain. I've got Bloodrayne from a games magazine, and it's still sold.

Public domain = when the copyright holders give out an explicit permission for the games' free redistrubution.

[TheSmyth]

Sorry, maybe "public domain" was a bad choice of words. But the point i was making was that they are selling games that are available for free. They're not doing anything illegal (except maybe the OEM thing?!).
And isn't that just the same as selling abandonware titles?

[Timpsi]

Nuclear Strike: No longer sold / Supported by EA?

CDAccess: "specialist games shop?"

I was referring to your line "Or perhaps a specialist games shop (expensive types of places that sell snes consoles for ?100 and that type of thing) is selling used copies for ?40? We'd be putting them out of business."

Don't get me wrong Timpsi, my argument isn't with you.

Don't worry, I don't generally take things personally. Matters as matters.

I just feel that it's a bit hypocritical of the whole abandonware scene to look for certain aspects of a game to define it as "not-abandonware". When in the same circumstances another game may be.

I'm not sure I see your point here, but I suspect I didn't stress the difference between abandonware and site policy. There are some games that are generally considered as abandoned titles, but are still sold by retailers. Some abandonware sites have decided to offer these for download, but for example Abandonia here has an additional requirement for the software as it rather wishes to support the retailers still carrying the game.

The point is to follow the "if it's not available elsewhere, then people can get it from us" ideology instead of "we have it up for download unless you can find it for sale". The site is kind of a preservatory for titles that are impossible to acquire otherwise.

The ways of determining this have been decided with rather straightforward logic. If the title is for sale on the net and thus globally available for purchase, then there will be a link to the retailer. Second-hand copies are of course inferior, and the seller usually has only one copy of the title.

If CDAccess was to begin selling copies of a shareware game (which they already do) That doesn't mean that it is no longer shareware.
Likewise, if they have a game which is now in the public domain i.e. http://www.cdaccess.com/html/pc/draglair.htm
(Recently given away free with numerous ganming magazines)
That doesn'y mean that they cannot sell it.

This is true, of course. There are some titles that are still sold by retailers and have also been released as freeware. In these occasions I'd like to see both buy and download links (since a hard copy is always better than a downloaded one, but a freely available game is a freely available game. The site visitor could decide which one he would prefer to get).

However, games on covers of magazines haven't been released as freeware, as the magazines often have been granted a special permission to bundle the game with their papers (and usually even have to pay something for the permission). They're not available for free, as you have to pay for the magazine.

EDIT:

Originally posted by TheSmyth@Mar 15 2005, 07:16 PM
Sorry, maybe "public domain" was a bad choice of words. But the point i was making was that they are selling games that are available for free. They're not doing anything illegal (except maybe the OEM thing?!).
And isn't that just the same as selling abandonware titles?

It is not the same as selling abandonware titles, as freeware games are legally downloadable, while abandonware is illegal to begin with.

Freeware downloads have been approved by the copyright holders, and are thus ok material for the site even though you could buy them from somewhere, too. But as I said in my previous post, a buy link would be nice as well.

[Bob the Dinosuar]

I was under the impression CivII was abandon ware, but a few months ago I bought a copy of it (brand new), from a video game store, that was other wise selling brand new games....

this is probably irrelevent though.... LOL

but how can you have OEM copies of a video game? or is it like the
GameBoy+Game packages?

[TheSmyth]

I would agree with what you say Timpsi. But the sites policy does seem to vary depending upon the game.

I admit Dragons Lair and the cover magazine was a bad analogy.

If the site is dedicated only to abandonware, that is not available in stores / internet retailers etc.. Where do games such as Grand Theft Auto fit in?

It is still supported by Rockstar, it is still licensed by Rockstar, it is definitely still for sale in shops and on the net. And Rockstar have released the game via their own website, to download for free (subject to their EULA). So it is preserved in every concievable way........... yet it is available for download from this site? :eeeeeh:

The point is to follow the "if it's not available elsewhere, then people can get it from us" ideology instead of "we have it up for download unless you can find it for sale". The site is kind of a preservatory for titles that are impossible to acquire otherwise.

More Examples:
SimCity2000:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...0089788-7253560
Jagged Alliance:
http://www.cdaccess.com/html/quick/megapak8pr.htm
Civilization 2:
http://software.surpriced.com/B00002S8AV.html
Command and Conquer:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...2327235-4347843
The Sting:
http://www.cdaccess.com/html/quick/thestingpr.htm

I Could go on, but there's too many to list, and you'll notice that one or two of them are readily available from CDAccess.
Don't get me wrong, i agree that all the titles listed above probably fall into the category of "abandonware" but by whose definition is another matter. :crazy:

n.b. if any of the admin would like to give me the task of checking the rest of the games on the site, i'd be more than happy to help.

[TheSmyth]

Bob - OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer

It usually means the software was provided to a hardware company i.e. DELL / NVIDIA to be packaged along with a certain computer / peripheral.

[Rogue]

Add to above definition: "And NOT sold separately" to define OEM.

This discussion is pointless and at some points I got feeling that Timpsi is paid by online stores to ensure that games should not be on sale.

Just a joke, it is in our interest to keep Abandonia running, and best way to do this is to avoid conflicts with software stores even before they start.

[Timpsi]

If the site is dedicated only to abandonware, that is not available in stores / internet retailers etc.. Where do games such as Grand Theft Auto fit in?

In my previous post I suggested placing both a buy and a download link for games that have been released as freeware, but that are still also available for sale somewhere.

So it is preserved in every concievable way........... yet it is available for download from this site? :eeeeeh:

I suspect it's on the site because it's popular, the reviewers liked it, and the folks were happy to see it being released as freeware. No harm done there, although I admit it doesn't exactly go with the abandonia principles as far as I have understood them. There are other freeware games on the site too, though.

More Examples:
SimCity2000:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...0089788-7253560

These are second-hand copies.

http://Jagged Alliance:<br /> <a hre...pak8pr.htm</a>

Report this to the admins.

Civilization 2:
http://software.surpriced.com/B00002S8AV.html

This is a new store for me. Do they ship internationally? Do they have some information about themselves somewhere?

Command and Conquer:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...2327235-4347843

Second hand copies again.

The Sting:
http://www.cdaccess.com/html/quick/thestingpr.htm

Again something to report to the admins.

n.b. if any of the admin would like to give me the task of checking the rest of the games on the site, i'd be more than happy to help.

No need for special tasks, just go for it. I've PM'd Tom Henrik when I've spotted games that are still available for purchase somewhere and he has replaced the links.

[TheSmyth]

According to what i've read and learned of abandonia policy, a large number of the best games on the site.... shouldn't be.

It took me 2 minutes to find the links for those games i listed, and there was more than one reatiler for each of the games.

If you check the prices of some of those games though it's enough to make you cry (CIV2 Multiplayer $27.99!).

While i don't condone piracy, i can't condone daylight robbery either!

[Timpsi]

Originally posted by Anubis@Mar 15 2005, 10:05 PM
Add to above definition: "And NOT sold separately" to define OEM.

This discussion is pointless and at some points I got feeling that Timpsi is paid by online stores to ensure that games should not be on sale.*

Excuse me? I fail to see your point there, so please explain yourself. Why on earth would online stores hire someone to prevent game sales?

However, I see this discussion as a valuable one, as it has to do with the site principles and the way they are applied in practice.

Just a joke, it is in our interest to keep Abandonia running, and best way to do this is to avoid conflicts with software stores even before they start.

Avoiding conflicts is of minor importance here, really.