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Thank you for your kind words, mr Flibble.

Originally Posted by MrFlibble

Temporary, since you're obviously interested in the history of Warcraft[...]

Perhaps 'interest' is a bit too hefty a word to throw about? I cannot say I am terribly interested in the history of any particular game, but suffice it to say that I am more averse to false information. Hence my post; to rectify some errors. (Oh, and to rectify another brain f*rt of mine, the first ever user-created map for Warcraft was of course not "No Rest At All", but "Never Give Up!". Both are by the same author.)

Regarding the linkage, the alpha screenshots in the first posts are not exactly correctly captioned. To wit; examine the first screenshot in the "Alpha Stage 2" section, and compare it to the screenshot captioned "Alpha Stage 3", and you can see they are in fact the same screenshot only with a different side panel, and three Warlocks plus a Knight added for good measure. In addition, the "Alpha Stage 1" screenshot is the same as the first "Alpha Stage 1.5" screenshot, only with different building graphics. Most of the screenshots in Hallfiry's post are presentation mock-ups. These mock-ups were created throughout the early phase in production for a variety of purposes; some were created for magazines, for reviewers and such, some for presentations, and some were simply for internal, in-house use. There were, in fact, no such versions as "Stage 1", or "Stage 2", or any other stage either. I have not seen a single actual screenshot with the non-isometric building graphics; they have all been mock-ups created to show the then-intended graphics.

The isometric graphics, of course, were then later created by 3D software--if I am not mistaken it was Animator by Autodesk (hence the FLC animation files), and Warcraft 2 used an early version of 3DSMax, if I recall correctly--and resampled/resized to fit the 320x200 canvas. You can see the 3D resampling at work in the screenshots in Hallfiry's post; if you take a look at the screenshot with the purple trees (the same image is on the back of every Warcraft retail box), you can see the Orcish farm's 3D model rendered from a slightly different angle. This camera repositioning can be seen in other screenshots, too, but there are relatively few screenshots available from this period in development, and none of the other ones' are in Hallfiry's post. (As an aside, the purple trees are probably due to Ron Millar's insistence on having very colorful GFX in the game. He insisted the game should be very colorful in contrast to the rather dreary, black and shadowy GFX that seemed to be all the rage back in the day.)

I think I have a 100-or-so page PDF document somewhere with a metric ton of information and code analysis of the game. It's been over 15 years since I looked at it, and I seem to recall it was mostly about retail, but there were some points about the demos in there, too. If I can dig it up, I will take a look at it. It's very, very low on my list of priorities, so I may have to bump into it by mistake.

(Yes, I am sure you know the data files with a 'war' extension--except data.war, of course--are simply FLC animation files created by the Autodesk software. Rename them with a 'flc' extension and you can view them with a standard Apple Quicktime installation. Be aware the Flic file format's compression is laughably inefficient by present standards.)

Originally Posted by MrFlibble

On a somewhat unrelated note, are you familiar with the Warcraft II CD shareware release?

Oh, regarding the WC2 "demo"? I do not know much about it. I mean, I saw it back in the day, and I even think I have had a stand-alone CD version of it once, but I've lost it. Or simply can't find it. I might have chucked it. I'm not much of a collector, I guess. Off the top of my head, I seem to recall the AI was way different in the demo; retail WC2 never used attack peasants, meaning the peasants in retail were either/or, an ordinary peasant could not become an attack peasant mid-stream. No such restrictions in the demo, if I remember correctly. Hey, it's been years.

If I come across something, I will let you know, ok?

[MrFlibble]

Originally Posted by Temporary

I think I have a 100-or-so page PDF document somewhere with a metric ton of information and code analysis of the game. It's been over 15 years since I looked at it, and I seem to recall it was mostly about retail, but there were some points about the demos in there, too. If I can dig it up, I will take a look at it.

Any chance you would share that, provided you find it and have the time for that? Would be aweseome

Originally Posted by Temporary

Oh, regarding the WC2 "demo"? I do not know much about it. I mean, I saw it back in the day, and I even think I have had a stand-alone CD version of it once, but I've lost it. Or simply can't find it. I might have chucked it. I'm not much of a collector, I guess. Off the top of my head, I seem to recall the AI was way different in the demo; retail WC2 never used attack peasants, meaning the peasants in retail were either/or, an ordinary peasant could not become an attack peasant mid-stream. No such restrictions in the demo, if I remember correctly. Hey, it's been years.

BTW, one of the downloadable versions of the demo (it's still called "Shareware" in huge letters that obscure part of the pre-release version of the title screen) has the word BETA in the version number. I didn't observe differences in AI or other game mechanics, even though there most probably are things to watch out for. Then again, the missions are rather short.

Well, well. Looka here.

While I was Googling some ancient stuff to refresh my Olde Grey Matter, all of a sudden outta left field, in rushes Pat Wyatt with his recollection of the humble Warcraft beginnings:

• Making of Warcraft - Part 1
• Making of Warcraft - Part 2
• Making of Warcraft - Part 3

He mentions a lot of the stuff I already have mentioned here. Plus he corrects me by mentioning it was actually Allen Adham who insisted the game should look like a toy box instead of Black Gothic. You have surely read the article already, but I had no idea it was out there, even. Whoda thunk?

Not to toot my own horn, but back in the day I maintained somewhat of a correspondence with mr Wyatt regarding--among other things--Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. He was, after all, effectively the sole programmer of the main game. The emails are long gone, but I recall he mentioned he would very much like the source code for the game released under a GNU license, while at the same time lamenting the fact he has no clout with his former company anymore. As an aside, I wish I could toot my own horn, but I am not limber enough.

Originally Posted by MrFlibble

Any chance you would share that[?]

Sure, if I can find it.

[The Fifth Horseman]

He also has some interesting stuff on Starcraft there.

[MrFlibble]

Originally Posted by Temporary

While I was Googling some ancient stuff to refresh my Olde Grey Matter, all of a sudden outta left field, in rushes Pat Wyatt with his recollection of the humble Warcraft beginnings:

• Making of Warcraft - Part 1
• Making of Warcraft - Part 2
• Making of Warcraft - Part 3

Right, I remember someone mentioned these articles some time ago in another forum, it's just I was kinda very busy back then and didn't have the time to properly read 'em Thanks for reminding about those, it's an excellent material!