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[Playbahnosh]

Originally Posted by gufu1992

IMHO, all jobs related to games always seem like a dream job - but they never are. You might still like it, but it is completely different than what you originaly think.

Exactly.

Now...what was that about Fallout 3? Oh...yeah...it got pirated...

Well....shame....n stuff

[dosraider]

Not about games, but same thing applies:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/steal_this_comic.png

Of course there is also another point to consider:
Would those who play pirated versions, actually buy the game if they couldn't get their hands on a pirated one?
All those game devs say that those people would buy their games, that's a doubtful claim.
Extremely doubtful even.
Great chances gaming has become so popular because many could learn what gaming is about and can be fun via cheap pirated games.

[Edit]
Remember the times where every game had its shareware version?
One where you could play approx 1/3 of the game?
Now all we can get are some lousy bugged demos.
If you really wanna try a game out you must hunt for the pirated version, the 'official' demos are complete shit.
Worthless.

[Playbahnosh]

Originally Posted by dosraider

Remember the times where every game had its shareware version?
One where you could play approx 1/3 of the game?
Now all we can get are some lousy bugged demos.
If you really wanna try a game out you must hunt for the pirated version, the 'official' demos are complete shit.
Worthless.

Completely agreed. You can play the buggy demo IF there is a demo. Most of the games nowdays don't even have that. And yeah, shareware was awesome back then. You could play the first few levels of them, get a feel for the game, and decide if you like it or not. AND as an added bonus, you could give it to other people, all legal. But today, even when a demo is available, it only flashes the shiny graphics in your face and a few 'awesome' design elements, known as baits. Almost all of these games get worse quick after the demo area.... :notrust:

I hate to say it, but the only real way to find out if a game if worth purchasing or not, is to dl it. Quite the shame...on the games industy.

@Pigggy

Don't blame it entirely on the developers. They are just making the games. Yes, there are developers who went out of their way to be a$$holes, see Maxis and Lionhead for example, but most them are just programmers and designer. The publishers are main enemy here. They make the marketing campaigns, they draw the lines on the release dates and they decide in what format the game will be published. The publishers are the ones making the huge showcasing promos and they pick the best parts of the game to be released as screenshots and videos. Publishers don't care about ANYTHING other than profit. They couldn't care less about the quality of the game, what impact it has on gaming history and how the developers will look like after the game is released, the only thing they care about is the sales figures. Heartless slavedrivers, that's what they are. The thing is, they are the only ones who get paid after the game is released. The developers get paid DURING development by the publisher, and maybe, only maybe, if they are lucky, they'll get royalties from the sales. Direct your anger towards EA and the likes.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Bethesda and Blizzard are their OWN publishers.

[Playbahnosh]

Originally Posted by Blood-Pigggy

Bethesda and Blizzard are their OWN publishers.

No. Blizzard is owned by Vivendi and Bethesda is owned by ZeniMax Media Inc. So, no, they are not their own publishers. Furthermore, one day they'll all be bought by EA. Sadly.

[Blood-Pigggy]

What? Those are the fucking owners, Blizz/Beth have their own publishing divisions and oversee their own projects. This isn't SirTech/Independent Publishing, this is a company who has investors and develop their games with input and support from the higher ups.
Bethesda packages and releases their owns games, and so does Blizzard, if anything, Vivendi and ZeniMax only help distribute the games and don't have direct impact on the development like a typical publisher/developer duo where the publisher doesn't own the developer but rather enters into a contract with them.

Big difference, if you're going to tell me that a project managed by a third party publisher is the same thing as a company that's composed of its own assets and only surreptitiously managed by an owner then that's just silly.

Bethesda and Blizzard's development departments work on their own games, dictate the release and development specifications of their projects and ultimately package, release and then distribute (with help and applied marketing from the owning company which have more control in these areas). Therefore Blizzard and Bethesda are responsible for their own marketing and publicity when it comes to content. Todd Howard is one of the lead members of Bethesda, and he's one of the idiots who spills bullshit along with Emil and Hines.

There are situations where you could blame the publishers for everything easily, this goes especially for corporations like Interplay or EA which were (or still are) notorious for forcing their subsidiaries into deadlines or changes on par with the requirements that they forced upon the developers.

Companies like Blizzard or Bethesda don't suffer from that, they're very large, very contained companies that manage nearly everything with the only significant effects from the owners applying to use and distribution of their properties.

[Playbahnosh]

Whatever. My argument still stands: They'll be swallowed by EA sooner or later...

[Blood-Pigggy]

Originally Posted by Playbahnosh

Exactly.

Now...what was that about Fallout 3? Oh...yeah...it got pirated...

Well....shame....n stuff

Not really, all the people that were doubting it finally got to either see it streaming or played it themselves, and ALL the people that had doubts (generalization here) are now convinced not to buy it. It's the real fucking preview for all the ones we never got to see because Bethesda doesn't know how the industry markets their games. Bethesda belongs in the film or music industry, not the gaming industry.

All the people that were waxing on about it are still going to buy it because they're the sorts of gamers who enjoy that sort of watered down tripe.

Quite honestly, Bethesda has no excuse, their entire PR campaign is a hype machine, unlike Blizzard or Bioware or practically any other company that releases a host of screens or in depth gameplay presentations they decide to limit their exposure to booths, gameplay demos (them playing it and showing off, not allowing people to download it and try it out) and selective play time to previewers, - previewers who are playing specific sections of the game (after the Vault, etc.) with pre-made characters that were admittedly pumped up for previewing purposes - and worst of all, denying previous Fallout developers the chance to work on the game (they actually turned away around three of them) which makes them look like *****.

Besides, they're slovenly, they've set up a release party that most likely took millions of dollars. There are celebrities that mean absolutely NOTHING to the game or the industry, freaking Courtney Cox is hosting it for god's sake. This wasted PR money could've been spent on polishing their completely horrendous AI that they FAILED TO FIX (yet promised to) or their terrible animations that they FAILED TO FIX (yet promised to).

Frankly, I think pathetic companies like Bethesda deserve to be pirated, they give out improper, wrong, and blatant bullshit out as information then expect people to pay full price for their games without trying it out. They repeatedly peddle out industry terms such as "immersion" or "choice and consequence" that really don't mean anything but are sucked up by the general public. I honestly don't care for the people that buy into this stuff, because when it comes to well informed gamers like me or most of you, it's heinous, it's lying and it's comparable to false advertisement.

I'm not one of those people who say that Bethesda bought out their previewers, however, I am one of those people that say that they constantly attempt to rig their previewers into a positive spin. Blizzard doesn't do that, Warcraft III had people showing doubts (MANY) as to its direction near its release, this coming from notable publications such as PC Gamer or Computer Gaming World. Bethesda on the other hand, has PR people hovering over a previewer's shoulder for the WHOLE SIX HOURS they are playing making commentary. And I don't have to bring up the whole pumped up character thing, that's just terrible, giving the previewer a false impression of the final product.

I don't know why people aren't aware of Bethesda's shitty business practices, it's the worst I've seen of any company. Even STALKER, which failed to deliver on practically ninety-nine out of hundred features it promised (the AI initially shown was insane) was completely honest about the cuts it made, unlike Bethesda who not only showed a scripted AI scene - among other videos of bullshit they never delivered on - but never said a word until AFTER the game's release about it being cut, and long after.

Legal or not, companies like Bethesda deserve to have their games pirated. It's entirely a question of ethics, and when people are constantly giving Bethesda their money because they're easily pleased, that's great for them. But as soon as they take an actual franchise that has any merit to it (Fallout) then it's just a cash in.

I'm not paying for their cash in, I'm not paying for their pathetic attempt to leech money from Fallout fans. And I'm really not going to give them any money for their unbelievably shitty business practices.