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[Frodo]

Originally Posted by Rogue

Stuff that he placed on his site (reviews, screens etc.) you can't remove as for some stuff we don't have legal right to display (screen shots are illegal, but not forced by companies - except Nintendo to some extent) but we do. So he is not doing just a little bit more then we are. (even in the eyes of law, we are more illegal site then his site is)

He is charging for reviews that he did not write, and does not have permission to use.
He is charging for walkthroughs that he did not write, and does not have permission to use.
He has ignored many requests to remove said reviews & walkthroughs.
He is charging for abandonware games.
he is charging for freeware games that he did not create.


AB does not steal works from other people, AB removed links to games that are not abandonware, and AB does not charge for anything.

How exactly is he more legal than AB? :notrust:

[Eagle of Fire]

You're telling me that you can't disable views/links from his site??

Good idea in itself, however we're way ahead of you here. It been considered a long time ago.

The main problem of this is that sites like these die and pop back inside a week when they get closed. A whole team dedicated only in doing that would unfortunatly be needed for this idea to really be effective...

[Ioncannon]

You know those websites that show a error when you try to direct link an image? Is it not possible to do the same with downloadable files?

[Adamg]

Abandonia does break the law, though we are pretty nice about it. We work with companies to find compromises and even stop distributing on request. Fortunately there are some producers and developers who realize that letting the public have their old games can actually be very good for business. Rockstar, for example, released the first Grand Theft Auto to the public free of charge. Many companies have done that. Telltale released an episode of Sam & Max from Season 1 for free as well.

People who run sites like the one in question, however, commit many more crimes than we do. These guys don't distribute old games to people for free so they can enjoy them. They trick their visitors and sell them illegal goods, sometimes even stealing bandwidth while doing it. Many of them even plagarize reviews. That's not a crime, unless you put a copyright notice on it. (Which is free, by the way.) It is, however, extremely annoying and rude. Yeah, we give games and material away for free, but at least we don't scam people. Like I said, it's good publicity for the companies anyway.

As for preventing other websites from leeching from Abandonia, it would be impossible to stop all of it. But I believe it would be worth the time to put up some basic protection. We could save bandwidth and prevent people from being robbed at the same time. Not only that, a lot of them would appreciate Abandonia telling them what was going on.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Eagle of Fire

Good idea in itself, however we're way ahead of you here. It been considered a long time ago.

The main problem of this is that sites like these die and pop back inside a week when they get closed. A whole team dedicated only in doing that would unfortunatly be needed for this idea to really be effective...

And now, are we trying to solve 'this' problem or not?? Creating code for such a thing is not that hard, but there is no need to maintain the software, as you can just as well create it to recognize allowed sites, and drop all sites that are not allowed.

Why pay for someone's else bandwidth??

Frodo, we don't have IP owners permission to post pictures from the games, not to mention the games itself. How's that different from what this guy is doing?? I know it doesn't look fair, but life is just like that. He is charging, but for what he is doing - supplying the link for google-unfriendly people.

His site would not have a reason to exist if there is no people who don't need his services.

@Adamg - there is no nice and bad way of breaking the law. The games that are released from the companies for free belongs to AR, not AB.

[The Fifth Horseman]

He is charging, but for what he is doing - supplying the link for google-unfriendly people.

What he claims he's charging for is "his" bandwidth. Which happens to be an utter lie, since all his download links do is steal bandwidth from us and HOTU.

Actually, make that HOTU - as I said before, the download system has been heavily remade during the November upgrade. Links to the files change every few hours, and it should be no longer possible for that leecher to do what he did before.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by Rogue

Frodo, we don't have IP owners permission to post pictures from the games, not to mention the games itself. How's that different from what this guy is doing??

I already told you. He steals reviews and walkthroughs that are written by AB people for use on AB (as well as stealing them from many other sources. Don't know about anyone else, but I never game him permission to use my reviews and walkthroughs. He has abandonware AND freeware games. And he charges for all of that.

AB removes links when requested. This guy does not. And how can you justify his charging for freeware games?

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Frodo

I already told you. He steals reviews and walkthroughs that are written by AB people for use on AB (as well as stealing them from many other sources. Don't know about anyone else, but I never game him permission to use my reviews and walkthroughs. He has abandonware AND freeware games. And he charges for all of that.

AB removes links when requested. This guy does not. And how can you justify his charging for freeware games?

He is not selling the games, so there is a difference. He is selling his services, as if you check his site get's a lot of traffic. (of course, not enough for him to charge that much, but...)

Have you checked main site??? (www.mosw.com)


But you are missing one point I tried to make. AB offering screenshots and games is less legal then the site which copied reviews from an illegal site, and does NOT have any game files on his servers.

Amiga kickstarts are copyrighted, I know for couple of sites that are shut down because they offered kickstarts for downloads. Check what his site states for amiga kickstart images.

Now, just ask Amiga Inc. what they did to protect their IP.

[Eagle of Fire]

Abandonia and Abandonware in general is not illegal. It's simply not legal.

"Huh?" I hear you say?

Abandonware is inside a grey area of the law which never truely been investigated in the vast majority of the world. Until a worldwide concensus about this happen, Abandonware is not illegal but those who have the copyright rights have all rights to ask for contents to be removed from someone who is using it against their will. This "policing" business usually is made by the companies themselves, and it is the reason why ESA been created. ESA is, in fact, the grouping of a lot of companies who wish to protect their copyright rights and pay a single specialised company to do the work for them.

So stop trying to make us feel bad because "OMG, Abandonia is illegal!". Everybody knows, nobody care.

Back to the subject, the leecher... If the site in question was offering to be paid to give out links all around the WWW for the games the users are looking for, then link to the site or the review in question... Then there would be no problems at all. Not only that, but it would be plainly legal because the guy, like you said, would be offering his service in return of a payment.

What is happening here, however, is not the case. The guy ask for money supposedly for his own bandwith, then direct link to the files but from other sites without ever mentioning the review, the site direct linked to or even ask the webmaster of the leached site if he agrees. It's a scam, pure and simple. Both way.

How many people a week do you think would actually pay for this "service" if it was explained to them that the site they are paying to is actually only linking to reviews of another site which offer the game free of charge? Do you think a lot of people would actually bother to pay the first site when they understand that they would have found what they were looking for without having to pay anything here simply by using a search engine? Which they probably already did, but were unfortunate enough to click on the scammer link first. There is ways to get listed first in search engines, and that's actualy easy. You can bet such scammers do their best to achieve just that to catch as many fish in their net as they can.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Eagle of Fire

Abandonia and Abandonware in general is not illegal. It's simply not legal.

:laugh:

I was looking for something for signature, this looks awesome. Do I need your approval to place this in my signature?? (That is not illegal, just it is simply not legal :nuts: )

LOL

If you knew me better you'll know that I'm not trying to make you feel bad. All I'm doing is stating the facts.

EDIT: Couple of years ago we had similar discussion at EAB about that site. Reason is that today from 2 sites you can have almost all Amiga games, and that guy is selling his services. Nothing you can do about that... there are still people who are Google-illiterate...