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Originally Posted by fjj
The first one could be The War in Heaven. Mobygames has no screenshots but Paper Street Games has some, along with the blurb "Unique approach to religious education." :amused: The game is also sold there.
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That was it!! A winner is you!
The second one wasn't dungeon keeper. The game was outside, had a vertical point-of-view, and was very cartoony in appearance. There's really not enough evidence for anyone but a super-powered gaming Loremaster to identify the game.