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[songnar]

If it has been unavailable for sale for seven years, yes.

[punch999]

WHat difference does that make law wise? The copyright still holds. And the company I believe sells leisure suit larry mega packs.

[songnar]

Perhaps it would help to explain it this way...

I have put out my program and made a bundle of money, then have taken it off of the shelves for sale and have not put it back on the market for the seven years. In the seven years it has not been available for sale, I have not made any money off of it. It has not strengthened the economy at all. In fact, by renewing a license for a product that is not for sale, I am losing money. Here, then, is an exception. Let us say that I release a package of products that includes my first program and put it on the shelves. The product is now, inadvertantly, generating revenue once again and is making itself usefull to the global economy, a copyright may once again be put upon the product.

[Lulu_Jane]

I believe that if the original creators of the games in question, Al Lowe and even Christie Marx (who hosts files of some of her earlier games on her site for free, although she does include a disclaimer) feel that they want to distribute thier work (and deal with whatever issues Vivendi Entertainment may have) then that's truly wonderful because everybody benefits - their talent continues to be appreciated, and new talent is inspired by their work.

However, the land of copyright law is a murky world, and I think that Abandonia does admirably in the way they work with the ESA. For better or worse the ESA exists, Big Corporations exist, and sadly American law does effect the rest of the world (I'm not going to get started about how it sucks to have your life/country effected by the leader of another who you obviously had no part in electing...and actually, neither did the majority of the country in question )

Anyhoo, yay for you if you do manage to make such a fundamental change via legislation, but forgive my cynicism, I won't be holding my breath

[punch999]

Ok now they are still paying for the renewal of their copyrights correct? It costs them money correct? Yet they still pay it. It kind of hints at the fact that they just don't want it out for free. END of STORY if they wanted to stop paying they would of course stop now wouldn't they. And have fun with the mailing congress. Let me remind you they make money off the copyright fee's sierra is paying.

[songnar]

Your point is sharply made in pressing the weakness of the American government. Money. So, for the evening I shall concede and recede from the waning light of my monitor to seek refuge beneath the long heavy of night.
I thank you for a fine debate.

[punch999]

Thankyou I enjoyed myself also .

[Tom Henrik]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(songnar @ Jan 8 2007, 05:10 AM) [snapback]273790[/snapback]</div>

Look, we know that, as far as big business goes, abandonware is illegal, illicit, taboo...
But there's another side. Have a look, if you will, at the man named Al Lowe. Al is a programmer who created games like Liesure Suit larry and Mixed up Mother Goose and even Freddy Pharkas Frontier Pharmacist. People like Al put a lot of time and work into those old games that won't be seen on the shelves by anyone, and that's a terrible, terrible shame as there is so much to be learned by history. Al himself hosts a Freddy Pharkas site where he distributes that game in full at no charge (unless you want to order a CD)
The truth is, there are people who have put so much of their lives into these programs just to see them shelved, doesn't it do them justice to at least see their work still given to the good people who will play them? Let us not allow it, onward with abandonware, for the programmers, for the people, for the past and for the future!
[/b]

Welcome to Abandonia. This is exactly what we are doing. We are offering games that have been abandoned for free download. I think you'll like our site. :P

Note, the important word of the above statement is abandoned. Games are abandoned when no-one cares about them (to put it very simple) - this includes corporations like ESA, who are paid by the copyright holders to protect their games. In other words - they care.

As for Al Lowe, and Christy Marx offering some of their games for free, that does not mean these games can be hosted by everyone. In fact, I have spoken to Christy, and she is terrified that Vivendi will find out that she is offering some games for download - as she would be forced to remove them.

However, I believe that the big corporations look through the fingers on people like Al Lowe and Christy Marx. Afterall, they were the persons who made the games they are offering - and as such hold intellectual copyright. However! If all the abandonware sites in the world would do the same - that would be a completely different story all together!

Trust me, I've had more than enough dealings with ESA and other companies to understand and support their actions and wishes, and the best possible solution for all parts is the 10/15 rule of thumb that we currently have.

[Havell]

Songnar, what you're talking about (changes in the law) do have a fair bit of backing. Check Here and Here for a couple of petitions.

However,a rabble of internet people with minimal levels of funding, and lives to lead don't really stand much chance in a court of law against a highly organsied, well funded group such as the ESA. In fact, the law seems to be gonig the other way if anything (eg, the copyright peroid for music is being extended from 50 years, backed by major record companies and people such as Cliff Richard).

The western legal system at present is strongly biased in favour of private companies protecting their property "rights" due to the large amount of the economy they make up, and the fact that, as a sector, they are performing well (compared to, say car manufacturing or something) and there is a big drive to attract foreign investment and native entrepreneurs, who will see well protected and long-lasting copyrights as a very big plus.

[Scatty]

I don't think that there will be ever success to persuade big companies, that hold the copyrights for old and not available for sell anymore games, to release those games to be available by all for free download. If at all, then at best they could release them for everyone to buy once again, as every value in such companies is measured by money income, and if they believe they earn something by paying a company such as ESA to protect their games only a money-weighting argument can teach them better.
Besides, it's not as if people who want those games couldn't find and get them if only searched thoroughly enough...