More Html Help

Bobbin Threadbare · 09-03-2006, 10:09 AM

How do you make a seperate table next to another one?

It normally appears like this:

(all this code tagged stff is best viewed in 1280x1024)

Code:

|?????|
| * * |
| * * |
| * * | <--Nav
| * * |
|_____|

|???????????????|
| * * * * * * * |
| * * * * * * * | <--Blog-ish thing
| * * * * * * * |
|_______________|

However, I want it like this:

Code:

|?????| * *|?????????????|
| * * | * *| * * * * * * |
| * * | * *| * * * * * * |
| * * | * *| * * * * * * |
| * * | * *| * * * * * * |
|_____| * *|_____________|

 * ^ * * * * * * * * * ^
 * | * * * * * * * * * *|
Nav * * * * *Blog-ish thing

Help me.

Rogue · 09-03-2006, 11:11 AM

Just use table....

Code:

<table border="0" width="100%">
 *<tr>
 * *<td width="100">nav</td>
 * *<td width="700">blogish thing</td>
 *</tr>
</table>

In this example nav is 100 px wide, while blog-ish thing is 700. So you're overall width is 800. Play with that to create best view.

Reup · 09-03-2006, 11:11 AM

The evil thing is to make another table that encapsulates both the tables. So you'll get nested tables, which is evil because it's a b!tch to maintain. Make a single row, three cells, put the first table in the first cell, second one is your seperator, third cell contains your second table.

An alternative, which is better from a design point of view is to use stylesheets to position the tables (using the left, top and position attributes). This requires some experimenting but leads to much cleaner code!

*The Fifth Horseman* · 09-03-2006, 02:36 PM

Also the much loathed and misunderstood FRAMES can be used.

They aren't as bad as people think.
I use them on my own site in fact, and can say that they have quite helped.

plix · 09-03-2006, 03:00 PM

If you're going to use CSS to do it you might as well do it correctly and not use tables at all. Tables are for tabular data, not for layout. A pretty good rule of thumb when creating them is to ask yourself "Would this make sense if I put it into Excel?"

Frames may be misunderstood by some, but they're loathed for good reason. They break printing, semantics, back/forward-button flow, hyperlinking, and a few other things. I'd actually be quite interested in hearing what valid reason they do have for existing (and, in fact, have been eliminated in XHTML strict DTDs and exist only in the transitionals).

**_r.u.s.s.** · 09-03-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the_fifth_horseman@Mar 9 2006, 03:36 PM
Also the much loathed and misunderstood FRAMES can be used.

They aren't as bad as people think.
I use them on my own site in fact, and can say that they have quite helped.

hey, i love frames
i thnk that whole problem of ppl who dont understand is that most of newbees put source(i mean<body> stuff of frames) in to "frameset" HTML file (some index.htm for example)

so if you whish to use frames

// <-is note if you wont figure it out=)

Code:

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>bobbins site</TITLE>
</HEAD>


<FRAMESET COLS="10%,*" BORDER=0> //COLS meants that you ll have vertical frames (you can use ROWS too, which means tha you are making horizontal frames); i have defined size of frame in percents but you can use pixels too(likeCOLS="100" ); borders.. are borders=)(size of it)

 *<FRAME SRC="c:\..blahblah.htm" NAME="1st frame" SCROLLING=AUTO NORESIZE>//put file you want to be shown in first(left) frame; name is used to acces frame from any other(like <A HREF="site.htm" TARGET="1st frame" >); i think you have figured out what scrolling is=]; noresize is that you wont be able to resize on "mouse over border of frame", man just put it there, cuz all the sites look very n00bish without noresize frame property
 *<FRAME SRC="c:\..blahblah2.htm" NAME="2nd frame" SCROLLING=AUTO NORESIZE>//second frame

</FRAMESET>


<NOFRAMES>
<BODY>
for explorers without frame support there will be some text
</BODY>
</NOFRAMES>
</HTML>

dont put anything else in to this file (except noframes part, if you wish..)

plix · 09-03-2006, 04:45 PM

HTML comments are started with  (SGML comments are a touch different, but that's beside the point). However, all you've done is explain how to use frames rather than why you'd want to. Frames are even more egregious than improperly used tables because they don't have any valid use and I have yet to hear a reasonable argument to the contrary.

*The Fifth Horseman* · 09-03-2006, 05:19 PM

I've used frames on my website. The result is much easier navigated, and somewhat better looking.

plix · 09-03-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the_fifth_horseman@Mar 9 2006, 01:19 PM
I've used frames on my website. The result is much easier navigated, and somewhat better looking.

Looks-wise the same thing can easily be accomplished with fixed positioning (which is a little tricky to get working in IE, but it's still quite possible).

Navigation-wise I highly disagree. Frames really screw up the back-button and they screw up linking. Linking to a specific page on a site which uses frames for navigation is quite troublesome and very messy. That is to say, frames break my (i.e. the user's) natural forward-back button navigation and they screw up one of the most important features of the web: hyperlinking. Furthermore, that's only addressing the invariable suckyness -- it's a lot worse when you start getting into all the ways people make frames suck in practice.

Reup · 09-03-2006, 05:49 PM

I agree with Plix. Don't use frames. Avoid them at all cost.
Use CSS for everything that's not content (take a look at CSS Zen Garden for great examples).

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