Learning to think positive thoughts
 

First, this is a serious topic, so please don't spam or troll or anything like that. If you have a constructive reply, by all means post it but if you don't have anything constructive to say, please don't say anything at all and I'll ask the mods now to keep this topic tidy.

Ok, I have come to some sort of realization. I'm pretty much consumed by negativity. I'm at the point where the negative no longer is negative but "neutral" or even positive. It's as turned upside down and inside out as it can possibly be. It's definitely not what I want and I'm looking for ways to turn this back on the right track. In short I have to learn to be really positive and not just fake positivity as I have done far too often.
It's going to be a tough one. I looked up on the web ways of changing my thoughts into something more positive and constuctive, and (I'm not kidding you here) my head hurt from what I saw as a load of hooey and I was actually looking for excuses to not look at the sites. I mean, it is like I'm protecting my negativity in some way even though I should do the exact opposite. Ok, I found these 10 "rules" that are supposed to lead to more positive thinking. What startled me was I knew I have failed every one of them and when I read them I constantly looked for the negative side of it: "It's going to be a really good day", "Yeah? It's cloudy, probably gonna rain soon", "set a goal and complete it", "yeah? what for?" you get my drift?. I'm serious about this, it is that bad, it's no good at all and I need to do something about it. Problem is I have no idea what I can do as I honestly can't say I trust I'm able to be positive without darkening it with my negativity..

I'd appreciate any reply or discussion around this subject.

It seems you have some irony, that could help, or it could help to lead you to depression... I'm serious. Maybe you should starting with using the irony in a more "happy way"

That's the first thing I thought while reading your post, I hope that could help... maybe later will come to me a useful idea to help you really...

Go see a psychiatrist. Seriously. That's what they are paid for.

If you see everything in such a dark way, you are probably in the first stage of a depression. Which can be either good or bad. Depression is one of the most common mental illness in today's world, and one of the most often overlooked. Second thing could be a burnout.

Anyhow, if you really want to get serious about solving this problem, seek professional help. Otherwise you might get over it, but it sure won't be a "serious" solution and might come back anytime.

If you think it's not a serious problem enough to see professional help, read books about people who succeeded in life and positive subjects. You can't switch the way you're thinking in a day or two, it will take time.

Something I figured out in my young life is that I am best in the situations of highest tension that demand my greatest effort and concentration. The situations that leave the least opportunity for me to ponder, since my brain needs all my "thinking power" for concentrating.
It surpresses the "Oh no, what could possibly go wrong?"-thoughts.

Another thing for me is structurising. Working or acting step by step leaves less space for going astray(mentally, that is).

And you need people to talk or even discuss. They might tell you, that you are acting fine but other things form the problem in your situation.

And maybe EoF is right. See a mind-doc, who analyses the stuff togehter with you.

Thank you guys. I really appreciate the feedback.

About a depression, this isn't a depression in it's early state. I have had it and (it seems to me now) been nursing it and protecting it for about 25 years now. I have seen pros but they pretty much gave me two thumbs down saying I'm too old to ever see any changes, that anyone my age with a long term depression will never get rid of it and that I can live the rest of my life on various pills. That is not an option. However, this odd doc I got in contact with recently has a different opinion and I'm currently waiting to hear from him about any therapy.

I just came back from one of my walks and while walking it struck me how similar my reaction to seeing those positive thinking sites were to my phobic reactions. I was, to put it simply, scared of challenging my negativity, like I have kind of grown to believe my negativity is helping me in any way. I know that is a lie but at the same time I still sort of believe negative thoughts are good for me in some obscure way. At the moment I have to repeat it to myself over and over again that negativity is a problem, not a solution, and as long as I have to keep doing that it's fairly obvious I'm not out of it yet.

About any irony in the first post: There you go, I have read it again and I don't find any irony there. I have gotten so used to thinking and talking the way I do I don't even realize there was anythng in that post anyone would see as irony. To me it's just "the way it is" if you know what I mean. On using irony the positive way? Much of the same, really, and the fact that I just don't know what positivism is. If Mr. Positive came walking down the street with smileys all over and a huge sign saying "don't worry be happy" I wouldn't know. That is one of the great challenges to me, to learn what positivism means. To me it's just a word with no particular meaning other than it's something I believe I need.

On talking to people. Well, that's a challenge too. When you don't see how your sour or ironic remarks can possibly be seen as negative it's hard to avoid pissing people off. Another thing is I have just recently started the work of changing myself and I have never given this stuff much thought, rather I have ran away from it. Part of what I have to do now is to understand what I'm doing and why I am the way I am. As I said, it's a load of work when I'm almost phobic of looking into myself and running away from myself has become my "natural" reaction. Ok, I see the irony coming: You might have noticed I spent quite a huge amount of time on AB and AR. Before that I spent my time at the pubs. That has always been, I suppose, me running. Also, While running I have been faking a cheerful mood. I don't know, perhaps a bit how I wanted it to be and part what I wanted other to believe. Most probably both. To me, this topic is about talking to others while peeling myself to try to get a better idea of the way I act. I won't use smileys here like I have used in the sb, I need to stop pretending I'm laughing or smiling when I'm not. Talking to others won't do any good if I keep hiding.

I need structure. That I know, but it hasn't been in my thoughts for so long I will have to work on it just to feel at least a grain of structure. It's so long forgotten I don't even know how it will do me good and it's easy to forget about it and just go randomly through the day again. Seeing it mentioned helps a bit there so yeah thanks, that's a good advice.

Just for the record: I'm also visiting this online shrink forum where I have gotten a few words of gospel. I guess I'm at the point where I need to learn about myself for real.

Holy $&@#! Oh no you don't! There can be only ONE miserable freak on AB, and that's ME, dude! So bugger off before I unleash my giant wave of whine on yer behind!:notrust:



:p:amused: j/k
Seriously now, I have some advices for you if you are willing to take it from a guy who is, too, being down under. I'm no shrink, but I know a thing or two about depression, and the world being against you n stuff.
First of all, it is a good thing that you at least realised, that your life is taken over by negativity. It's graet progress. The next thing, there are some question you gotta ask YOURSELF. First of all "Do I want to be negative/depressed all my life?", this is an important question. If you relise that, there is another way besides the way you go now, it will be great. You gotta gather all your strenght and face this question for real. IT will be hard, but you gotta "face your demons", so to speak. When you wholeheartedly decide, that you don't wanna be miserable anymore, you gotta take the first step. Next question "Why am I being miserable / What's the cause?". If you have at least a vague idea about what causing your depression, try to change that thing, leave it or at least try to look at it different, be it your family, life, work...etc. Believe me, the first step is the hardest, it will be hard, very hard. Every inch of your body denies change, but you gotta move forward. If you make the first step, it will all be much easier, and go on it's own. You still gotta work on it hard, but when its set in motion, it will all be better. I know, experience. Oh, and don't let ANYTHING stop you! Its YOUR life, and nobody know better what's good for you than yourself, if you really committed. Getting a phsicologist is good, but he can't do miracles, YOU have to change YOURSELF, and only YOU can do it. I've never been to a shrink in my life, but I think he'll say something like this himself.

Anyway, I don't wanna tell you what to do, it's your stuff, dude. But if you wanna talk about it, PM me, I'll be here.:idea:

Ok, the opening of that post made me smile :)

ok, like I said, I'm just beginning to realize how much negativity has ruled my life. Up until today I didn't have a clear idea at all about my own negativity but during my walks today I was surprised how I could, with ease, label every thought I had as downright negative. I tried to keep the thought "look for something positive" but it went away before I got a chance to grab that thought. It's still too much what I see as normal.
One important thing you said was that I have to ask myself if I want it to stay this way. I don't. The thing is for now everything around this seems so new and I don't know how to go ahead and when I have lost the belief in myself it's hard to feel a wholeheartedly wish for change. I know I must change but it's hard to dare, if you see what I mean. I guess I need to get a lot more courage and faith before I can say without lying that I really, really want to change, still I kinda know that's what I have to wish for. I mean, for years I have actually told myself wishes are the fastest way to disappointments. I need to build up courage and faith, that's a fact, but I also need to get a feeling of what that actually means. I guess one will lead to another in some way, but I don't see how.

There's one thing I don't quite understand from what you're saying. I get the impression you say the cause for the depression is something outside of me. Like I said, I'm beginning to understand the causes are not outside of me, but inside of me. The causes are the way I coped with or failed to cope with things around me, so the answer will be in me and the way I see everything, myself included. The cause of the depression is my own thoughts and feelings around what happened and they make me behave in ways that only locks me in the depression. To unlock it, I guess I will have to change my entire world view. I can look out to understand a bit of myself but the main thing is that I will have to change. There is a saying that goes "if I'm right and the world is wrong, then I'm wrong and the world is right". That holds more truth and is much more relevant to me, I feel, than I have ever really realized.

Ehy there Knut, I'm sorry to hear this, really.
I'm quite sure that my words written in this poor English won't help you much, but you never know.

Like Playbahnosh said you have to change yourself, and only you can do it.
You are strong enough to pass this bad moment, but I don't think you have realized it yet, you are a good person MM...

I think love could help you a lot...really, or maybe God, or a real friend.
I could go ahead for hours, but you are the only one that can do the first step.
Good luck dude.

Hey Dave, thanks. Your English is far better than my ideas.

About "this moment". Well, I'm sorry, but it isn't really "this moment". Truth is you can take all those LOL smileys I tossed around in the sb and know I was never laughing out loud, more pretending to myself and you guys.

I don't know really, about friends. I keep wasting friendship, getting semi-friendly with the wrong crowd (not any of you guys :p) and I'm sick of it. Like in the post above, it takes a lot more courage and faith from me to dare getting friendly with people and love is right out for as long as this continues. The risk of losing friends and loved ones is a bit too great when I know I'm still in the middle of it. I lost very good friends over the years, people who went out of their way to be there, but I suppose their frustration over my eternal negativity, lack of progress and me always looking out for answers chased them off if I didn't went all the way and went apeshit.

About God. I've prayed from time to time, but truth is I lost faith in the mere possibility of a God at a pretty early age. I think perhaps for some, God will be what they call a sensation of coming out of a rut. For the record, I'm an agnostic nowadays ;) I just prefer to see the God myself instead of having anyone telling me there is one.

Anyway, thanks. I still look for the feeling I have made the first step. There's a lot of negativity in the way so I don't really expect me to feel it until I have made several more.

MM. I don't know if this has any relation to your situation but I would like to tell you a story.

Almost exactly a year ago I had to resuscitate my son from a nearly fatal drug overdose because he just could no longer deal with his depression. As soon as he was released from the hospital I began working with him on ways that he can improve his life. Things like going back to school or finding a better job etc. He has become very negative and doesn't have the confidence in himself to make the changes that could be the difference. Every positive thing that I try to help him accomplish he always has an excuse for why it won't work or why he can't do it. I'm not sure if the depression has created the self image or if the self image has created the depression. He is terrified of failure and lacks confidence to the point that he has become anti-social. Anyway, what I have learned with him so far is that step one is FAR more difficult than step two. Step two is more difficult than step three and so on. I'm sure that if he could find the strength to make life changes that breed success he would find that success creates good feelings which create more success and so on. The important thing has been to make the initial steps small enough that he will succeed and big enough that he will feel good about them.

Another thing. My son worries and feels bad about the burden he is creating for us, his family. I want to smack the crap out of him every time he says that (not literally). If he could only understand the unconditional love that a parent has for their kids he would probably start to respond better to what I am trying to do. Sometimes I don't know what to do but i do know that I will never give up. I can only hope and pray that I can make a difference.

MM, use the people that want to help you. Don't be ashamed and don't hide from those that want to help. Don't try to bite off too much at one time and create situations in which you have the confidence that you will succeed. You are not alone.

EDIT: Another thing. Understand that there are chemicals in the brain that affect our moods. Depression is a physiological condition. Behavior modification alone isn't always enough. Don't rule out medication as a possible temporary aid in getting your life turned around.

Ok, now I don't know what to say but I'll try. What you say about your son is something I recognize too well in myself. The negative view, making excuses for not to try, him not believing changes will come and (probably) his feeling of being drained by the mere thought of trying when he's "bound to fail". His fear of failures and lack of confidence with all the consequences that has.That is a description of my own negativity too close for comfort. I know perfectly well it is true, that I have been and still am too much that way, but at the same time that's one of the thoughts I have been running away from and pretending my way out of for so many years now. As for me, like I said, it has been and still is close to a phobia to have anyone or myself have a look at how I really feel and what I really think, a near-phobia I have never really recognized as one until today. At the same time, I can't get away from the thought that that fear has to be challenged and wiped out before I can really start on the Big Changes I need. Also, as for my depression and negativity, this is the only thing I sort of know and recognize, and whenever I try to find something different it's like a vacuum there that has to be filled and the only thing to fill it is the same darkness I try to get rid of. That, I guess, is at the core of this topic, how to find something that isn't dark and how to feel certain it's right this time. I have this feeling the disappontment of finding nothing to replace the negativity while wasting energy trying is part of what has chased me off from trying, and I sense your son may have the same feeling of getting drained for what seems as nothing.

About accomplishing things: I can't say I ever accomplished much. I have had ideas but without the confidence I could pull it off I abandoned all the ideas and I then saw that as proof that my lack of confidence was well justified. For the last weeks I have started walking. At first it was short walks just to get out of the house, to break the routine of doing nothing. Then I started walking longer distances. I started setting goals like doing this walk I never before thought I could and I completed them. I'm still setting greater goals there. What concerns me is these walks haven't given me any greates sensation of accomplishments other than for a very short time and I soon forget how it was like. I'm concerned because with this depression I can't feel sure whether it doesn't feel great because I have a long way to go before I can feel anything or because it's just in vain. At the moment I can only be stubborn and keep walking, choosing to believe I have a long way to walk and that I will start feel something sooner or later. It still nags me though, that I'm only fooling myself.

About using people, well, that's an issue. So far I have been misusing rather than using, not seeing what I was doing and I have to say I feel bad about the whole idea. It's not what it should be like but it's how it turned out. Perhaps I feel I need to make some major changes before I can feel it's fair letting others help. Beside, for all these years I always looked out for answers, never at myself and I need to feel a bit more certain I'm asking for the help I need, not necessarily the help I think I want. Another thing is my negative view may stop me from appreciating their help as something that will do me good. That's one hellish vicious circle.

Except for my walks, I'm all out of ideas of what situations I can create. You are right, but it's something that seems unknown to me. When people ask me what I'd like to do for fun, I honestly have no idea and often just choose something random without actually believing it will be fun at all. Of course, going into something believing it will suck tend to make the prediction come true, so it's not as much a prediction as it is an effort from me to make the situation suck. It's fairly obvious to me right now just how massive my negativity is. I really need to stop it. I suppose this is the exact negativity that frustrates others. Believe me when I say I really want to snap out of it.

EDIT: Just occured to me. One of the most vicious aspects of a depression is that you stop caring about most things or anything at all. To me, telling myself "it's no use so I won't do it" or "it's too difficult, I can't do it" has also been a way of escaping that feeling of not caring and the feeling of guilt that comes when you sort of know you should try but choose not to. Like, I choose not to because I don't care so I can only blame myself but I'd rather not blame myself so I'll tell myself and others it's no use. Way to go if you want to nurse your depression but at the same time another vicious circle that needs to be broken somehow.

2nd EDIT: As far as what a depression is in terms of chemicals, it's a matter of beliefs. Modern science will say it's a physiological illness while a witchdoctor may suggest you need a good exorcist. I have no doubts chemicals play an important role in our brains, but I'm not sure about what's cause and what's effect. To me, pills are about dealing with the effects, not the causes and to me there really is only one option: To get rid of the cause for my depression. Like a painkiller can make life bearable if your arm's broken, anti-depressants can make life easier but just like the painkiller will not help the bone knit back in working order, no anti-depressant can remove the cause of the problem. There are so many alternative explainations on what to do with the cause, from the "nothing can be done" I have been met with in modern medicine, via energy fields of some sort in alternative medicine to demons and devils. Ok, so I don't believe in demons but if modern medicine gives me thumbs down I see no other option than to seek among alternative approaches. Another thing is that I feel by letting pills take away the symptoms I won't be able to search for the causes just like a person who can't feel pain will never realize his spleen is busted. It's certainly not a fun ride but to me it's the only ride that will allow me to getting in touch with all the things in me I have lost touch with.

I have these same sorts of feelings, but at a young age they're diagnosed as some disorder as something. I'm practically racking those up.
I have the constant need to be places that I haven't been before, my jogs regularly take me so far that it takes me around two hours running at a good speed to get back home.
That's a good thing, start JOGGING instead of walking, if you feel no sense of accomplishment from your walks, then push yourself, exercise to your limit. At first it can be difficult, but at some point you'll ignore the ache, and when you get home after going farther than you did before, you'll feel like you did something. There's a part of our mind that associates our ability to physically outlast our pain so that we can become stronger mentally as well, because we realize that we have the ability to better ourselves, even if we don't feel like we're making progress.

It sounds like generic highschool coach bullshit I know, but it's nothing like that. It's all about the feeling that you've beaten an older you, even if that older you is just a few days before.
Then read, read, read. Fill your head with things you don't need, think about things you've never thought about. Remember thinking about the possibility of oblivion in death and the strange feeling you had afterward in your head? Try to think about things that you'd never imagine before because it'll give you new perspective. Think when you're in a field on a jog, in a nearby park, or wherever else.
I understand that you'd think that it would only make things worse thinking about your problems, but if you let them fill you up for a bit you'll get over it. Just outlast a couple of hours of misery, instead of letting it drip in bit by bit everyday, it works hand in hand with the philosophy of making yourself stronger, just work through it and the feeling will dissipate.
But NEVER delude yourself, don't ignore problems. Try to find something that you can accomplish even further. Try learning to play different instruments, sports or whatever. Watch new genres of movies, listen to new music, on your jogs you can listen to a bit of opera for a boost. And while you're doing that think about how to fix things. As human beings we tend to think that there are only a couple of alternative solutions for a single problem, but arbitrary math problems aren't constant with things in life.

IN SUMMARY DO EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU POSSIBLY CAN. There is no dullness in your life, there's only a sickened will that won't push you to do new things. In the last year I've forced myself to start wrestling for school, do intense physical work-outs, write fiction, get into surrealism films, abstain from useless relationships and pointless flings, and find a way to better my grades in school while at the same time ignoring the useless wastes of time that the public school system attempts to suck me up with (fucking honor society can kiss my ass).
There's only one bad point to this, you'll start thinking you're better than everyone else because you've done so MUCH yourself.
If you think there's an empty spot in your life, it's because you haven't done enough to enjoy yourself.

I can't really relate to an extreme level since I'm still a teenager and there's much I can do to influence my path in life, but I do have tendencies to follow whatever impulses I have, it's another one of those *rolls eyes* disorders some doctor thought would explain everything that makes me different.
But despite all that, despite all that generic asshole bullshit that people spew about life not being all fun and games, life CAN still be fun and games if you just let yourself be more impulsive and enjoy these things.

Society can suck a ****, they tell you to be reserved, mature, and to control your impulses, but all that does is making a bunch of crowing jackanappers who're always stuck up their ass all day. Be impulsive.

I have no advice Mighty, but I'm thinking of you.


*hug*

Too long posts to read for such a lazy one like me... so I'll just add a little comment

Psychiatrists are quite useless, I think.
A good person can help much more than a bad one with a degree...
So, find positive people, whatever they do to gain money!

Thanks, Lulu.

Ok, seems to me there is still lots I need to get right before I can get to any big changes. Seems BP and Playbahnosh have touched on a key I need to get right. I need to learn to ask myself the right questions for the right reasons and I need to find the reasons and answers in myself. I'm beginning to doubt if the questions I have been asking myself. I am getting doubts about my motifs when asking others and myself. It's hard to get a grasp on it but somehow I have a feeling my motif has been and still is to a huge degree to get thoughts to thiink instead of getting a grip on my own thoughts, sort of substituting my thoughts for others'.

I'm asking myself what do I think, how do I feel but instead of getting something it's like staring at a wall. Something goes on behind it but I don't know what. That's uncomfortable. I really don't know myself. I don't even know what my interests are, I have no idea what makes me happy and not much of an idea of what makes me feel whatever. That has perhaps been what's stopping me from finding what I like. How can I like something when I have no idea how I feel about it? There has been lots and lots of pretending I liked stuff, but it always seemed hollow without me knowing why. I'm thinking I need to tear down this wall but quite frankly I'm scared. I ran away from me for a reason and the idea of going back to me is unsettling like hell and it seems clearer how my mind deals with it by trying to run away from the whole thing. There's a lot of turning to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

And there's always that. :D

Maybe what happens is that you're not happy with what life had in store for you. But one of the things I'm certain of is that you mustn't accept the first thing that comes your way. Whatever you would like to be doing in your life, go after it no matter how easy and sensible the alternatives look in comparison.

And you could always read about one of these or both, you may like it and it may help you too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

Ok, this is gonna sound really whiny but to hell with that. This is what I feel happened and what lead to much of this.

My entire life has been a search for acceptance. I wasn't accepted for who I was where I grew up and I never felt acceptance for who I was at home. I started to copy what others did and said. It did at least give me some feeling of acceptance. Basically it got out of hand in a short amount of time and I ended up pretty damn early living other peoples' lives as my own. Of course it never worked and of course I never understood. I wasn't them but to me it was more important to convince myself to keep leaving myself behind as long as I got some appreciation from my family and people around me.

Now, I'm not writing this for any sympathy or whatever but I write it because that's what happened and I'm just beginning to realize what damage that has done. Basically, I have been lying to myself and others out of fear my "real self" is something to loathe so consistently and for so long I no longer have any idea who I am. I have serious issues letting people know me and a lot has to do with the fact that somewhere inside my head I know what I let others see is just fake.

I think it becomes obvious I won't feel good about anything unless I can appreciate myself but that requires me first to get to know who the hell I am and have enough courage to dare being myself to myself and others.

I don't know, there are a lot of lies I need to sort and label as lies and I'm still scared of letting my mask fall so to speak, but that's about the only thing I never tried before and nothing has helped so far. I "only" need the courage to get started for real.

Others may have useful advice (says me), but don't let them dictate your life. When it's about deciding about yourself, you must do what you feel like. If you follow your (true) desires and accomplish some of them, I can't see how could you be miserable. And don't worry to come up with a neat plan for the rest of your life, not everyone is apt to follow one of those and it's not better having it than not. If after a couple of years you're tired of what you now want to do, just move on, having done what you wished sure won't mave you miserable even if you change your mind and your life later.

Thanks, Japofran. Well that's kind of the issue now. I don't know what I feel or what I want. I have spent almost 3/4 of my life doing what others liked to do or what others told me I'd like to do, trying to copy what others did and said, never allowed me to listen to myself and what I really wanted. Right now I'm trying to get used to the idea that I should listen to myself. I'm not used to that at all so that alone will take quite some time and effort.

Woah! I mean, hang in there dude! As Japofran said, we can give you advices but only you can do anything about yourself. That's true. But pointing out certain things to you might ease the progress a bit, that's also experience.

I tell you something about me. When I'm troubled by something, I always ask my friends for input. Note "friends" and "input". I'm not too fond of asking my parents because they are not objective to my cause. And only input. I don't ask for guidance or help, I only ask how they see certain things or what is their opinion on the subject, what would they do. Maybe get a tip or two. This way I can get objective points, see things from the outsider's perspective and than I can decide things FOR MYSELF. Don't let people decide things for you, not even a shrink. They can point you towards a certain way or goal, but the last word is always yours. Remember that.

Now that is called "growing up". It's not rocket science, dude. Kids learn by imitating grown-ups, even in the animal kingdom offsprings learn by observing their parents and try to copy them, it's pure biology. The fact, that you HAD TO copy others to get appreciation and feel good about yourself is sort of natural. You did NOT leave yourself behind, in fact, you were developing that thing you call yourself. I hope you know what I mean. You never understood why it never worked to try to live someone else's life. Well of course it did not work, because you simply incapable of doing that. It was only the process of developing your own character, your own self-image, the "I" part. Let me ask you something. When you think back to the experiences you had when you had this copycat stage in your life, what did you feel when somebody asked you "Who are you?". Ask yourself that very question now, and try to answer it for yourself as honest as possible. Remember, you can't hide anything from yourself, so don't lie to yourself. If I'm not mistaken, you need some effort to answer that. You need to think, piece it together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in that time, when you were talking about yourself, you only told raw data, your age, your address, your feelings, your name, "yes, I'm fine, thank you"...etc. But you did not have a clear picture about yourself, your place in the world. That's natural too. Someone grows up faster than others, no problem. I myself had this crisis in my life not so long ago, when I realised that I unknowingly mimic other people.

Quite the contrary. Not having a real, developed self-image is what makes it feel "fake" for you. Your "real self", as you call it, is....um...not "standalone" yet, it needs some outside framework to work, such as other people's personalities. It's not something to loathe or be ashamed about, it's life.

To appreciate yourself, the first thing is to ACCEPT yourself. Accept that you are "you", accept yourself as your are here and now. Accept that guy looking back from the mirror, bacause it's not somebody else, it's you, dude, that guy is you. Not somebody you stuck in your body with. That guy in the mirror will follow your around wherever you go to the end of your life, and can't do anything about it, you might as well accept it. Trust me, if you accept yourself, your every personality flaw, birthmarks, bad skin, and everything you are, you will feel better, a whole new world will open up for you, a world you can explore, learn, experience...

Remember, I said you CAN'T lie to yourself. Just think about it, you just can't. If you try it, you will immediatly feel bad and resent yourself for whatever you try to hide from you, because you are the liar and the person get lied to too. You will feel bad for lying, and feel bad being lied to at the same time, and that is some bad bad feeling. There is no mask to fall, because you can't hide anything from you, it's impossible, think about it. If you come to terms with yourself, you can then come to terms with others as well. No need to see this as a huge mountain you have to climb, as a task or whatever, no. It's dead simple really. The only thing you have to do is, get away from everybody else, find a quiet spot, and think. Talk to yourself. I know it sounds stoooopid, but go for it. You won't get any insaner than you are now :p:amused:. You might even get an unexpected answer ;)

And for the record, you are not insane. You can stick a lot of medical diagnoses on yourself, depression, syndromes, whatever, but it's all male cow excrement. You are not sick, you are just growing up, dude. :amused: Have fun with it!

Don't take these things word by word, I'm no expert, I just said what worked for me. Some questions you can ask yourself, that's all. Life can throw hella lot towards you, and it can be indeed hard at times, but you will come out on top if you are in a good relationship with yourself. Remember, it's YOUR life, and only YOU can live it, and it will be what YOU make of it. No need to "gather courage" or prepare for battle with the vicious dragon, you don't have to defeat and bound yourfelf into slavery in order to be happy. You can achieve this by being nice to yourself, too.

True, only I can do it. Also, I'm trying to ask for inputs but I'm still a bit uncertain what sort of inputs I need. See, I never until quite recently (last 4 years or so) turned to others at all. I didn't turn to anyone including my family, but at the same time I have always been told what to do, think, like, you name it. The rest of my life I have pretty much avoided people, my own family included, and never really talked with anyone. I always had to ask myself for inputs and that is not adviceable in the long run. Just to learn to talk to people and ask has been hard work for me and I'm nowhere near proficient at it. Even these posts are to me a way of learning. I have made some pretty horrible mistakes along the way and I wouldn't be surprised if I do some more, but like I said, these posts are also about me learning to talk with people.

Also true, copying others is a part of developing yourself. Only thing is, for me it got as I said, out of hand. Big time. You mention my "copycat stage". It never went away. I'm still there only now I'm beginning to realize it has been too much. I'm not sure if you can understand this, but for me it really went too far. I won't go into details here but let me assure you there I have a lot of "opinions" and "views" that just never seemed right but I can't put my finger on why, only thing is I know where I got some of them from. You can say I got opinions and views I have called my own that I never accepted but they got to be the only ones I got. It sounds crazy and I'll be the first to agree it is. I can only guess a comparison would be people breaking out of a secluded sect after spending their entire lives there. It probably would be much the same thing in many ways.

I can't agree just like that. To me, pretending was the only way for me back then that I knew that would make it less risky having certain people around. When you're 5-10 you don't see things the way you say there, it's easy to "accept" you should be ashamed for who you are. When you are blamed for all sorts of weird stuff it becomes even easier. I think I've mentioned earlier that feeling is still there and that's why trying to "find" myself is so scary.

That I can only agree on.

That's the whole point. It has indeed been possible to lie to myself but at the same time, you are right, those feelings have been with me all along but I never dared challenging it. I can even add to it you end up in a spiral you feel only more lies will get you out of. Trust me, it is indeed possible to get stuck in that spiral.

Sorry for the double post, but there seems to be a limit of quotes in a single post.


Well, I don't concider myself insane :) only utterly confused and lost. My diagnoses? Well, I'd be nuts to say I haven't got a depression but about the other diagnose, well, I'm not sure about that one myself, neither is this other doc. I can tell you that both him, you and I agree I need to grow up. But I also need to get to know what I think and feel. That I can't deny.

Well, I'm glad you are making so good progress, dude.:amused:
See your shrink says you should grow up. Well, I agree with him, but I have something to add. You WILL grow up, no matter if you want it or not. You can't evade it, it's a natural process. Your brain gathers experience continuosly, no matter if you pay attention or not, which leads to more processed information and those to built into your personality. So you will grow up, no matter what, it's not something you can control. You can't speed it up or slow it down, you will grow up at the pace you can. I'm only saying this so you won't feel any pressure growing up, that "OMG, I need to grow up FASTERRRRRR! Like NOW!" or something. Just observe. Walk around the world and observe, gather knowledge. Don't dive headlong into something you don't even know, thats called extreme sports:amused:. What I did is that too, I mean the observation, the learning. It doesn't require any effort at all, just so you pay attention to little details, open your mind. The best way to gether knowledge. Don't dive into textbooks or study rigorously, that won't help, your will only get tired and you will forget most of what your learn that way. But what you learn by simply "wanting" to know something, and think "wow, I didn't know that, how interesting", you will remember that till the end of your life. Experience.

Remember: Knowledge is the only thing that cannot be taken away from you!

(no, don't count electroshock therapy! Positive thoughts, remember?:D)
You said you need to get to know yourself, your feelings and thoughts. If you take an advice from me, learn languages. They say, the more languages you know, the more people you are. That may sound confusing at first, but it's really not. I'm hungarian, and the best thing ever happened to me, that I learned English. And German. And Japanese (well, sort of). The more languages your speak, the more cultures you get to know, the more you get to know yourself. Talk to people. I know it's hard for you, because you are not used to just striking up a conversation with complete strangers, and it's very frightening too. What will that other person think about you, what if they are not nice, oh if I screw something up surely they will think I'm a jackass...etc. Yea, been there, done that. But that is not even close, trust me. Most of the people you meet think the very same thing about you, too. Just think about it, you are more prone to talk to somebody if they address you first, right? Well, most of them are just like this. I used to travel a lot. Not because I wanted to, but I had to (school, work, family, moving...long story). I came to realise, that people are not like I imagined them to be. Usually I travel by train. Locked together with a handful of strangers in a cabin (trains like here in hungary mostly have 6-8 seat cabins insted of line of seats) can be a strange experience. More in fact, if some of them know each other, and start talking. You don't even have to evasdrop or look at them, they are sitting right near you. You can gather some valuable intel listening in on these conversations, and not mainly on the subject they are talking about. Observe their talking style, their body language, their personality. I'm very good with people, and I can assess the mood and general personality of people quite fast, it's a perk of mine. You can aquire this perk too, just by doing the same thing. observe people. If you are afraid of interacting with strangers or people in general, this is just for you. It's like passive sonar, you just gather information, and don't have to involve yourself at all if you don't want to. Some time later you'll start to see patterns, personality traits and body language that is connected to one kind of a personality...etc. It's not only a very valuable skill to have, but it is fun too :amused:. Is amazing how different people react to the same situations or questions.
And here comes the best part. You'll learn hella lot about yourself too in the process. You'll start to recognise personality traits that you yourself have, that you couldn't recognise otherwise. You can select the personality traits you like and build it into your own. Just like Lego. Think about this: if you grow fond of a person (for whatever reason, it doesn't matter), you unknowingly start to assimilate his personality to a certain degree. You start to use expressions, body languages, opinions like that person. This is how you build your own personality. Interesting huh?

Okay, I gone too far now. You see I'm prone to ramble on about things I like, that's me : ). If you don't want any more of it, just don't read it ; ). I don't wanna bore you any longer, so I might just finish this off now. See you in the next edition of "Personality With Playbahnosh" : D!

Much of what I would say has probably already been said on here , but I would say be carefull of over analysing yourself as it can be easy to do and certainly something I have done before .

I use the same nick on a number of different forums and speak to people at work who may wander the same boards so I wont add much to this public discussion but I am impressed and glad that you feel comfortable with expressing your thoughts on here and wish you luck with the search :)

Thank you.

[whining]
Ok, so what's new? When I got back home last week I realized I has lost my rainjacket at the airport. I'll get it back, it will probably be here on Monday. Anyway, it's clear I'm still deep in it. The weather here is godawful these days with only a few hours of no rain so far this week and my walks have suffered from this. I guess I know I have been using the weather and the missing rainjacket as an excuse not to be as busy as I was before that happened. There have been a few walks and there have been moments where things become lighter, where I felt more energy and will to do something. I started tidying up and cleaning my apartment but I know how little it takes still before that energy is lost and the negativety comes back. Yesterday evening I got a phonecall from "home" I didn't need and it ended up with me heading straight for the pub. I knew I was shirking "homework" and that I was running away again and it made me feel even worse. I continued today with the home chores but today has been hard to keep my focus on what I should focus on. The stupid bit is that it makes me feel better to do that tidying and cleaning but yesterday is still a bit too heavy and I just don't have the energy to get started. I feel like a car with dead batteries, that has to jump-start itself.

Another thing is I just heard a mate of mine had to go to the hospital for some heart surgery. I will go see him but I feel like an arse for digging myself down like this and not caring enough for him.
[/whining]

I think you should open a new chapter of your life, I mean, you need "fresh air", to change your habits a little, maybe a travel, or a new job or a hobbie.
One of these things could be a new battery for an old good car ;)

Yeah, I need a change. Well, travels are out coz I haven't got the money to get anywhere, hardly have the money for the bus ticket here. I have been accepted into this back-to-work program but I'll move away from here shortly so I won't have a full 5 days a week program until I get settled at the new place. About a hobby, well, playing has pretty much been all I have ever done but I have to leave that for quite some time. Another thing is I honestly have no idea what that hobby can be seeing I can't afford a hobby unless it's absolutely free and those old ideas are still there that I have to deny myself what I want to do, I'm still telling myself I'm not interested coz I've been told I'm not interested so I do what I've always done, pushing it all out of my memory. It's totally crazy but that's how it is. Someone else used the word brainwashing to describe what it was like to grow up in our family and there are a lot of ideas I need to get rid of and a lot of daring to accept having my own ideas.

Drawing is free, and you already have a talent for it :)

Perhaps. If I could find some inspiration. It would have to be MS Paint though as I can't afford even a sketchbook. Ho-kaaayyy. I seriously need to learn about possibilities and forget a lot about limitations. And if anyone was wondering about the nature of my negativity, well, it's becoming plain to see I'll say.

Who needs MS paint when there is ......................
http://www.gimp.org/

When you tell your self its a "good day today" even if it is rainy and cloudy day, and think were is the "good" in that. Then try to think again..."ok there is clouds and it possible will rain..but does that matter when i have roof above my head or money for food or ect"

It is the littel "things" you have that others dont have you must focus on.
Not because that others dont have roof above ther head or money too buy food for but i was trying to make you understand the idea or concept :)

Just an advise from me.

Thanks, psycrow. I did get those 10 tips for positive thinking and "it's going to be a good day" is one of them. I have read them every day but I feel it's gonna be a while before I can tell myself it's true. Anyway, things are better today, not ideal but better. I know there's gonna take next to nothing to send me down again but so far it doesn't look too bad. I'm still uncertain how the day will turn out.

I think I'll have to appologize for yesterday. I was grumpy and dark-minded as hell and I feel a bit guilty for not being able to appreciate the posts you guys made yesterday. I did get gimp but I gave up coz I had no idea what to make or how to use it. I used to be a curious-minded kid, that I know, always looking around for new gadgets and stuff to play around with. The couriosity got lost but I would like to feel that same curiosity again. Perhaps, when I get a good day, I will get enough energy and willpower to teach myself gimp. I think I would have loved it years ago and I really would like to feel the same way about it again.

My mind is still trying to escape the whole situation but I know I managed to focus on the right things earlier this week, I only have forgotten what that was like. That is also a feeling I'd love to have again. Well, I need to get more housework done, perhaps the activity will do something for me.

Also, I think I'll go visiting that guy at the hospital today. It may very well do both of us good.

EDIT: About thinking about what I've got: Well, I suppose it has a lot to do with having a depression. I simply do not see those things and frankly the idea that I have anything isn't in my mind at all. All I see are things I had that I broke or those things I wish I had. It sounds like a stupid thing to say perhaps, but that's what it's like. The thought that "the perfect is not good enough and let's not embarrass ourselves by showing off crap" is very much present and I even suspect that has something to do with my "creative block". That too is something I have a hard time daring to challenge. The thought that I can't do it is ever present so it takes a great deal of effort just to get started on anything. Once I do get started, I know I get the good feeling of actually being able to do it but soon after that feeling is forgotten. It's like it won't stick.

Well, inspiration and art is a very confusing thing. I read something interesting not so long ago on PWOT. Yeah, a VERY unlikely place to find the meaning of life, but there it was, I promise. I read that art and human suffering is connected. Not in a physical way, but in a "frame of mind" way. I read that people with with strong emotions and unwillfully introverted personalities are the best artists. Bad things happen to them and they can't went these feelings any other way than channeling into some form of art. And it makes some aweseome pieces of art, be it music, drawing, writing...etc. If the artist is lucky, the angst goes away, if the audience is luck, it doesn't. With the angst gone, the artist no longer has anything to be emotional about, has nothing to channel into art, therefore it becomes bland and mediocre. You get what I mean?
You have some tremendous ammount of angst inside you now. The bestest way would be, just like above, to channel it into art, any form you like. You virtually cannot mess up, everything you'll do will be solid gold. I'm not kidding. I did this myself. I had angst, a lot. Personal problems, girls, family...you name it, I had problem with it sometime in the past (God knows I still have). I started to make music, write novells, do pictures in photoshop... just doodled away, nothing organised or even thought-out. But guess what, a lot of my songs, pictures, and my novel was awesome according to some friends and you people also. I presented a portion of my songs here in the art thread.

So if you are looking for a way to get better, express yourself and feel good about it too, just use art. It helped me. And don't worry about inspiration, it will come once you start doing it, I promise. Just start to doodle, play a note, write some words, and it will flow like you've always done this. :amused:

I honestly don't know, Playbahnosh. There's a block there and I can't get a single image, word of text or anything. However, this sort of brings me to my next point:
I just came back from a hospital visit and before going I was beginning to see just how self sentered, selfish and inconsiderate I've been and still am. While there it became a bit clearer that I am self centered and inconsiderate. The worst bit is that I have known for a long time but I didn't want to accept it. I didn't want to be that way and I don't want to be that way and I didn't want people to see me that way. I wanted to do what's right but I simply don't know what it should be since too much has been, in my mind, about me, myself and I. I hate it. It frustrates me that I can't listen properly coz I fill my head with myself, faking consideration coz I wanted to be conciderate while feeling anyone could see right through that, panicing, faking harder, getting more and more frustrated and scared, just another spiral.

I suppose consideration and empathy comes with emotions and I really am out of touch with my own there. I miss having a full set of feelings and emotions. What I feel is sorrow, darkness and emptyness only sometimes it's more like just empty. That emptyness is perhaps the worst, realizing there are some essential pieces missing, and it's perhaps what scares me the most and what really sends me running fast.

I have repeated over and over again that I need to find my feelings. I said I don't see how I can be really positive until I have found those. I suppose all this goes to show my point. I really, really need to get in touch with myself or I'll keep messing up.

I'm glad you went to see your friend Mighty :)

Yeah, I knew I had to, but I detest the reason I went. I feel I did it almost exclusively for myself, so that I would feel better, so that I could have a better concience. That's not the reason one goes to see anyone at the hospital. I mean, it was good to see him walking around and not lying in his bed, but at the same time I didn't feel it was good. It was like I knew it was but I was unable to feel it, let alone express it. That's a gospel I've heard countless times: Reason over feelings and it bothers the hell out of me me to know I am this way. The guilt is like the double of the "boy am I a good samaritan" relief of guilt which in turn is false and just plain wrong. I hope he appreciated it but I can't feel anything, like I didn't care at all how he saw the visit and that "knowledge" is just awful.
I sat there talking with him but I just didn't pay much attention. Instead I was more concerned about me. That is definitively not what it should be like and I loathe it.

I came to realise something just now, dude.

You watch Dr. House? If not, I suggest you do so. If you are, you will know what I'm talking about. IMHO, you are not only miserable, but...you like being miserable. You revel in it, you play in it like a child in the mud, smear the unhappyness and darkness all over yourself. Not in the meaning of "like" being unhappy, you just got addicted to it. You know addiction works, right? You can't give up something. Well, nobody said people can only be addicted to positive things. I think you are addicted to negativity, and can't really give it up. You depend on others to make you feel good about yourself, to comfort you, to help you, to tell you that you are more than you are...etc. Been there, done that. And it indeed helped me to feel good for hours, days, even weeks. But often I realised too late, that I did not really wanted them to help me. I just wanted them to do what I couldn't do myself. My friends were all trying to make me feel better, but no matter what they said, I reacted negatively, I pointed out the bad side of what they were saying. Yes, they made me feel better, but I did found negative things in their reasoning and I told them. I was waiting for the ultimate positive, the ultimate answer to my pain that will change my life. They kept cheering me up, but I kept bombarding them with negativity, with disbelief, and too late I realised what I was doing, when they gave up on me saying "I don't know what else to say to you". And suddenly, my IV of positive was cut. I realised I used the negative remarks to make them say more positive to me, to make me feel good, to do what I can't do myself, but there is only so much rejection and denying a man can take before giving up you, and the IV stops. In extreme cases I even made them hate me, which made things even worse. Fully depending on friends to make you feel better is very bad. Soon they will fade away from you, and won't know why. This is why. Think about it.

I think I know enough about you to recommend something. I think you are ready for it now. If you can, get the movie called "What the *beep* do we know?", and watch it. It's a half-documentary, an educational film, about humans, biology, chemistry, quantum-physics and finding "yourself". It's about your place in the world. I know it sounds confusing and "yeah, right", but please bare with me for a sec. That movie changed my view of the world, twisted me in a good way, made me realise many things, including how people can do certain things without knowing it, how certain things influence us that are beyond our comprehention. Don't worry it's very interesting AND understandable at once, if you watch it with an open mind. Generally people have two opinions about it: the first group will tell you how awesome it is, and the other will react ignorant saying it's a bunch of semi-scientific humbug and it's utterly childish. I hope your are in the first group. In my opinion, you would benefit greatly from that movie. "What the *beep* do we know?" is the title. It won't do any harm watching it, I promise.

You will find some answers in there, particularly about the thing I said, the reveling in darness stuff. HERE IS SOMETHING YOU MIGHT LIKE TO READ. Also, that. Read some more pwot. You will laugh your behind off, and get some parts of you together also. I don't recommend reading "Embrace The Horror" article, if you are not up to some heavy mindf#&@, but it is interesting.

Hmm.... I want to help you so much, because I think you remind me of myself. I've been there, where you are now. I felt that way. But I also realised that I can't tell you what to do, because you don't believe me. Don't deny it, you just don't, I know. Only YOU can help yourself.
I know it's hard to digest, and you will probably hate me for what I'm about to say, but I will say it nonetheless: You are no special snowflake. You are not a delicate little being to be pitied. Face the hard truth, you are just another human being, and you gotta cope with your problems, because nobody else will cope with them for you. Because nobody else CAN. You don't have depression, you don't have any sort of phsycological condition, you are NOT sick. You don't need a doctor. You just need a huge slap in the face from life itself, so you go faceplanting six stories down. No matter how much we tell you about it, you won't really get it until you are there yourself. It might seem harsh but it's true. Don't think you are special, because you are in fact not. You can tell yourself what every life-improving book and doc will tell you, that you are special, and you have a special purpose and a special place in life, but that will just make things worse. It's male cow exrement. You will think about yourself as outside LIFE, above it, because you are special, better than the "others". But soon, you'll face it that you just one of the "others". You have to carve your own way out of the rock, what will make you special, you are not inherently one. Stop pitying yourself, stop over-analysing and thinking junk. It won't help. Accept yourself, accept who you are, stop veiling on your problems, and face the road before you. Don't loathe or hate yourslef. Love yourself, because you are stuck with that person in the mirror for all ethernity, and you can't go on hating that person forever, because he knows what you think, he knows what you'll do, and he can help you. Listen to him. Think about the future, but don't get lost in it. It's your life, and only you can live it. Stop reveling in your problems, and start living your life. Learn, paint, get girls, talk to people, work, watch TV, play games, and forget about this "I'm so depressed, please help me" bullshhhh. That's the best advice I can give you, and possibly the only one.

I'd like to help you but I can't do anything more at this point. All that I told you in this thread is my personal experience, validated by life itself. You don't believe any of it, and it's fine. I didn't either when a good friend of mine told me all this. But I thought about it. I tought "what the hell, let's give it a try, how much worse can it get", and I did go for it. And here am I now, tell you all this. That's all, it's your job from here on. As Morpheus said "I can only show you the door, but you must enter it yourself". And don't try. As your own sig says "Try not. Do, or do not, but don't try". Wise man, that Yoda :amused: That's all I could say. I gave you pointers, things to read/watch, and questions to ask yourself. Good luck, dude! You gonna need it! ;)

I would just like to point out that there is a lot of bad and unsupported mathmetics in that movie, but hey, what the *beep* would I know :p


:)

First go edited out coz it seems to me my approach has been and still is all wrong.

EDIT: Ok, this is a new thought (as far as I can remember anyway) and perhaps what Playbahnosh and the others have been trying to tell me all along. Perhaps the reason why it's so hard to get it into my skull is just that I'm trying to get it into my skull. I grew up on the Gospel that "theory is all you need to understand and see. Read and get all the facts and you will succeed" and "of course" I have seen and still (I have to admit) see any solution as something to read and study to get, something to contemplate, think about, ponder and if a problem didn't go away always being told I didn't think hard enough. Never try before you have thought it through. Anyway, What happened earlier today, in the morning, I remembered I actually always wanted to learn how to fly an r/c chopper and I joined a forum asking around for tips on how to get started. I chatted with my mate at the hospital and I remembered he was an eager r/c pilot when he was young. We talked a bit about r/c flying in general and now I just have to admit that a grain of "gloom and doom" went away for a few moments and there is something new here I'm afraid to lose. At least I know for the moment I do have a genuine interest that is mine.

EDIT Goddamn! I know how I'm beginning to see this as yet another thing to ponder instead of actually doing it.

EDIT: Play: I have read your reply but I think I'll need to read it again from a diffferent approach before I can fully appreciate it.

First thought: Learn to smile. Once you have tried it a few times in the mirror, smile at anyone who makes eye contact with you. If smiling at random strangers discomfits you, start with just smiling at friends, family and coworkers. If challenged about why you are smiling, just answer that you are trying to brighten up their day (which is a laudble enough goal, in its own right). People will often smile back, which shows that even a negatively self-absorbed person can spread happiness and joy.

Second thought: Be thankful, even if all that you are thankful about is that life is not fair, so you know that you do not deserve any of the negativity that so troubles you. Be thankful for each day. Thankful that you woke up. Thankful that it is a beautiful day (or thankful that you can see that it is not).

The really hard technique that I use to fight melancholy*, so I can say from experience that it works:

Happy is as happy does.

If you present a hearty sense of indomitable good cheer, while admitting that it is occasionally forced, you will eventually posess a hearty sense of indomitable (if occassionally forced) good cheer.


* my personal cross is that I have a degree in electrical engineering, but work as a semi-skilled general labourer( a job that I am thankful to have). Because it pays all of my bills and still gives me time with my family, I have every right to be happy, otherwise.

First: Playbahosh, perhaps you are right about some sort of addictiveness. I don't know because I never saw it that way but when reading ribell's post I knew I was fighting the idea of trying what he suggests, trying to tell myself all these "reasons" why I shouldn't try and I even became very negative about everything while at the same time having this wish: Yes, that is something I have been wanting to do for years, smile, but the idea of standing there pushing a smile on my face always put me off.

Ok, I just woke up and I still have my old ways of seeing things but I'll be out the door in a couple of hours. It's still hard for me to avoid thinking about smiles and happyness in a non-theoretical way but hopefully I'll remember long enough that a smile isn't something I need to ponder and analyze. Honestly, the idea of standing in the front of the mirror practicing seems to me more than just a bit silly but then again I never has been able to think it would be for anything positive in the long run. ribell says it will be positive, so for now I will have to chose to believe him and try to let my stubbornness work with me on this one. Another thing is I'm going to an r/c shop to look around, see what they got. I'm still "here" but in a weird way reading about servos and stuff caught my interest in a way I haven't felt since I really don't know when, even if I don't yet feel that enthustiastic about it at least I have some sort of genuine interest for a hobby here. I guess I need to nurse that interest a bit to get a better feeling of interest. Even if my wallet is empty I have seriously played with thoughts on how to afford one of the cheap but good newbie choppers. It's not going to be easy but it's not impossible even if (I admit) I do tend to fall back to telling myself it is impossible. Anyway, I might get a chance to practice smiling a bit today.

EDIT: Play: About your last post. I will probably have to try this new approach for a while before I will read it again, you know, get a feeling of what it's like to just experience and not theorize. Something tells me I should probably read all you guys' posts again too later if I manage to change that one bit in me.

There is no rush dude, your life, your pace :amused:
All this stuff will be here for all ethernity as far as I'm concerned, so you can read it all over again any time you wish, you reply when you wish. Hell, even I was surprised when I found that "long lost" heartbroken thread buried under the cobwebs :o And yes, it was an interesting read high in educational value for me. It was interesting to compare myself to that past dude, who had all those problems. Reading my own posts was pretty...embarassing, so to speak. But that's me, and I don't regret who I was, and who I am now...

I wish you luck on your journey dude. Remember: Knowledge is the only thing that cannot be taken away from you.

Edit: One more thing. A present for the journey:amused:: CLICKY!

Having my morning coffee I just came to think how almost my entire life has been a chase for confirmations. It has been so "important" to me that it took over too much. I haven't thought of this before and I'm not sure exactly what I wanted to confirm but I can guess. Whatever it is it has been all about me and my relations to others, my family and friends. It has in all honesty been a major part of what's been driving me along. That and my fears. Maybe this chase has been a way of dealing with those fears. Play said something about me leeching off others what I couldn't give myself. I have never been convinced of anything other than being a lowlife and I suppose part of all this concern about what others think is part of this chase for confirmation. To get a feeling from others I am more than just a heap of genetic waste. At the same time I have this really strong feeling I'm not "allowed" to accept I'm more than nothing, that it's frowned upon to say "yeah, I'm ok", so the chase becomes rather frenetic. I look for confirmations while tearing down whatever positive confirmation I get, sort of. All those jokes and me going "let's check if they thought it was funny", getting down if noone laughed and not getting anything if they did, just for starters. That, and the feeling of "I can't do it" while pretending and hiding, daydreaming "I can do it all".

The chase and me tearing down, getting down as I do it, it's not as much an addiction as it is a conflict I never dealt with before. As I said, I'm not entirely sure about exactly what's been going on but this all seems to make sense, me wanting confirmations while creating an abnormal craving myself. Obviously this can't go on. It has to change somehow.

What about your move to eastern Norway?
Isn't changing your living-area a good and easy change for starters? :)

Yeah, I guess. Ok, it can be seen as me running away again but on the other hand I really need to get started on something and that won't happen here, so yeah, moving will get me a chance and opportunities. Let's see if I take them.

Okay, it made my smile :laugh:.

As for MM: look, you're a great person an' all, but I can't help you :wacko:. All I can say is: you made SOME progress, and that's good. Peace be with you :noworry:.

Best wishes,
Einartass

Is that something related to Scientology or similar? :wondering:

:p