Censored stuff
 

Have you seen it before?

Umm, what's with the size? I really can't tell if I've seen it before coz I can't see what it is I'm supposed to have or have not seen before.

Hm.
Sorry. Kosta send it to me at it is.
I will try to resize it!

Haha, seems Vecernji List has obviously gotten to the bad side of the Evil Sudanese Empires' Government...

Better wiev?
 

Uh-oh... What happens if you click "I don't think this should be blocked"? Will they come for you early in the morning?

That is kind of unsettling stuff.

Looks like the state-controlled ISP is blocking websites it doesn't like for whatever reasons. It's done in many countries, notably China, and that would be Sudan (close Chinese ally BTW) where you are if I'm not wrong. What really amazes me is that the censor mullahs' zeal is so great that they're blocking even Croatian sites that are not likely to be requested from Sudan... Kudos for their hard work. :rolleyes:

They have fear of freedom, it's easier to control people if they don't know what it's happening around the world.

Because Abandonia is the most up to date accurate news source around.

Abandonia actually is The Liberal Agenda.

You don't even know what I'm talking about Piggy.
Information is dangerous.

Ask to Chinese people about google.

Why do you say information is dangerous, Dave? Why letting out this lethal piece of information? Are you trying to kill me?

Abandonia has a Hidden Agenda

This kind of thing makes me cranky. Information is not dangerous. Weak governments who fear or simply don't respect the intelligence of their citizens think information is dangerous.

Censorship of all media in my neck of the woods goes from mild to ridiculous depending on the government and its mood. At the moment it's having a ridiculous moment - cleavage (not breasts, cleavage) is blurred from television, I watched a film about Picasso and his damed paintings were blurred out of the picture. I tried to watch Monty Python's Meaning Of Life the other day, and it had been cut so much it was only 40 minutes long. There is a war going on in the South of the country which is rarely reported on in context.

It's completely awkward to talk about the monarchy unless it's something positive (which is quite difficult to do these days) and heaven forbid you ask someone which specific prospective prime minister they prefer. The army controls the major television and radio channel. Ugh.

Then of course, there was the whole no YouTube thing for months last year.

I strongly believe that if your Powers That Be believe you are too stupid to make your own informed decision then your government is stupid.


*is covered in a blanket and is taken away by men in black*

I woud have to disagree slightly with your statment. Information can be dangerous, and some people have trouble handling it.

In South African we have alot of Uneducated people who are unable to make the correct decisions regarding there family and lifes through no fault of there own (seperate education for seperate races caused this problem) and it is up to a goverment to guide these people in the right direction and one of the methods used is withholding information and telling them what they need to know unfortunatly this requires a compotent and fairly elected government to think for these people, which is not always the case and in some cases a government will over step the line, which results an the media being unfairly censored then it is up to the majority to speak up and elect new leaders.

Good thing there's not that kind of stuff in Finland.

And yes, information can be dangerous. For example: Lets say Im a movie star and I have kid. Then someone makes a wikipedia article of me, telling that I have a kid. Now, a suicidal lunatic reads the article and finds out that I have kid, so he decides to try to kidnap him so he can torture my mind.

EDIT: Because Mr. Chosen is faster than I am ;)

Doink,
I would counter that by asking how "uneducated people" are supposed to change their situation without free access to information?

If you have specific examples I'd love to hear them - I love a good censorship debate :)

Chosen,
I agree with your example to an extent, but I believe that that is on a different level than, for example, refusing to report on a corrupt government official.

Doink: How about... education? You know, educating the uneducated just might work.

When I rule the world, the stupid will be kept stupid. Otherwise, how else will I remain in power?! ;)

Donk, I would also like an example. I think the actual result of the kind of policies you mention is always perpetuating the situation, even though it's opposite to the intended result.

What I love is the wiki and web2.0 approach from the Sudanese government. They don't just block sites according to their own judgement, they encourage users themselves to report sites that hurt their (wacko) sensitiveness.

The internet is great at spreading information. It is just as good at spreading mis-information. The mis-information is what is dangerous. It can incite people to do things that hurt innocent people.

Ok, let me correct my statement: information can be dangerous, it depends on how you want to use it.
Btw Lulu you're a perfect example of what I was talking about.
Another example is the situation in Tibet, monks demonstrations are concluding in blood, the government of the country is succeeding in its aim: to obscure the facts.
Do you know that today 10 monks were killed by the army?
I didn't, Italians media didn't even talk about it.
Internet is pure information, if they are able to stop the flow of information they can commit all the atrocities they want.

Censorship, one of my favorite topics :)

I'm a person who strongly believes people should have access to information, but on a level they can handle.

What does this mean?

As you know I work as a teacher. Currently I'm teaching at a high school, so I work with a population from 15-24. Our school offers programes that educate various kids, some of them came to our school only half literate and will in 2 & 1/2 years only have the elementary school completed (sort of night courses), while others will get the highest level our highschools have to offer - the matura degree.

Why am I telling this? So you can understand better the background of what I'm about to say.

In the technitian classes (4 years of high school, will become skilled technicians who will recieve the matura degree) I can have constructive debates on just about anything and the kids can understand, comprehand and give their own opinion. How come? They are fully capable of procesing verious information in their minds and act upon it, so even if they have some prejudice, once they stop to think about it, they will see that their opinion is based on half truths and lack of correct information.

On the other hand the shortened classes (2 & 1/2 years) are hardly capable of 15 minutes of concentration to listen to a subject that really interests them (and there are only two things that do interest them to talk about: sex and cars). So in such classes it is not possible to have a debate, because the only thing they do know about some far off event, land, culture (or home politics - they seem to be even less interested in that) is what prejudice they hear.

So when we had a talk about Islam, I first had to explain to them that those really are people who need to eat, drink, sleep,... who are bloody under the skin... who have schools, libraries, internet access... who have children, stores, homes...

It took me about 70 minutes (almost two lessons) just to convince them, that Muslims are normal regular people, who just simply have a different religion and names that might seem strange to these kids, because they are in another language.

It was only then that we could start talking about the prejudice they have about them and if it is apropreate or not.

Again, I am AGAINST censorship, but I know the danger of just placing some bits of information for the general public to see and rely on their common sense to correctly understand.

EXAMPLE: When they saw the pictures of starved children in Africa they were convinced it was a report on bad parents who neglect their children and they couldn't understand that there really is a lack of food. Some even said that Black people can't live outside the desert, because it's too cold for them, so no wonder they die of starvation, because there's no food in the desert. -So just showing those pictures was not nearly enough, because they could not understand the information being presented to them.

In such cases information can be dangerous, it would be better for them not to know about some things, then to get a completely distorted opinion, because they can't understand what they see.

The internet has given us new challenges in deciding what level of freedom of information is good. I can immediately think of 3 very bad instances of the flow of data and information being bad.
1. Coordination of terrorist activities
2. Slander and Libel
3. Child pornography
There are more.

So what do you do? I have read slanderous blogs that should not have been allowed but how do you stop an anonymous blogger? It's much easier to prosecute slander and libel in the printed and broadcast media. In some cases, the U.S. is taking the approach of monitoring who accesses the sites and taking action against them when warranted. This is opposed to blocking the sites altogether. Many are screaming that our freedoms are being infringed by being monitored but I would rather have that than to have the government start blocking the access. Tough dilemna.

Well Sebastianos, of course kids are not adults. Still I can't agree with you. The kids already take your point of view as the truth, at least you must be able to explain them the facts instead of hiding some of them because it's easier not to consider them. And the key point here is that you can't be against censorship but at the same time in favour of "benevolent" control of information. There's no good or bad control of information, either there's censorship or there isn't; every system of censorship is based on an ideology that argues that the censoring is done for some "common good", every one of them that ever existed.

I can't grasp the logic in your example either, it seems as if you were saying that kids are better off being artificially kept ignorant of famines in Africa (to the extent of banning the broadcasting of related news?) because otherwise the teacher would have to explain them what a food shortage is. So what? Kids will come up with stupid explanations about why the child in the image is starving, of course, they're kids and know nothing about the world, that's why they're at school. ;)

I'm sorry to say Sebastianos, but you sound like you are giving classes to people who have learning trouble or are retarded... We have those around here too, and they have special "adaptation" classes to try to "fit in". They are usually all troublemakers who end up with a low pay job when they grow up...

Just to make sure: how old exactly are they?

censorship
 

Sabastianos...Your point was well taken..As a teacher you are in a unique position to say the things you do. I had a laugh at the comment that young people(teenagers?) are only interested in sex and cars. If anyone doubts that take a look in the chat room and see what a bunch of 14-16 year old males talk about:oh: I believe a lot of kids have their own form of censorship. By this I mean they live in their own world and HAVE NO INTEREST AT ALL in whats happening in Africa or how Muslims might be real people or anything else that doesn't involve food,the opposite sex,computers,the latest fashion, and anything to do with sex. I work in the Justice system(Law Courts) and I see damaged,illiterate,forgotten,abused,and used kids every day...I would like to say to Eagle of Fire that many of these kids DO make it. But only after someone has taken the trouble get to know them.Some of them have even gone on to higher education(University) Not all end up as the dregs of society in low paid jobs.....SAL

JMB, I would counter by saying that those three things existed long before the internet, they have always been there for those that seek them out. I do not believe for one second that a person sits down on a computer and logs onto an undercover child porn site by accident.

However, it does work both ways. Because of the "open" nature of the internet and the free flow of information it is also easier to catch the people who do such horrible things. This man was caught precisely because of the ease in which information is available today.


Misinformation is nothing new either. It's been around since the dawn of time, gossip or the tabloid press for example. Imagine how garbled news used to be in the middle ages when it would filter across countries in what was essentially a massive game of Chinese Whispers :) This is why I believe that every person should have the right to decide about what they see personally. A stupid person will make stupid decisions regardless of the quality of information they receive.

(Just by the way, I'm not using the word "stupid" as a synonym for "uneducated" in this context :) )

I know... That's why I said "usually". ;)
[quote]Well, I'm an educated person and I can frankly say that I could not care less. You get so smashed by publicity and stupid TV ads about those that you just don't care after a while. This however doesn't mean that we should not consider them human just as you and me. To hear that some people consider muslim as something else than humans like themselve is something I find extremely troubling. It's like someone who try to explain to you what is a triangle by drawing a circle... :rolleyes:

Ah, welcome to The Monekysphere.

Although it's couched in comedy, the article makes some very valid points about how our brains our wired.