Okay, as many of you (win98, horseman, racer, omuletzu and the whole gang) might remember, I have a colorful past when it comes to building custom DOS PCs. Be it my moderate technical knowledge or the mix-up of internal parts and unfitting drivers or blablabla, every DOS PC I built until this point has bitten the dust. And now I'm back for more!

What I'm trying to do with this thread is build up a guideline on how to build a custom PC. This involves setup howtos, technical specifications, hardware recommendations, the whole shebang. I hope the technically more experienced among you can aid me in this quest for......the ultimate DOS machine!

bam bam bam baaaaaam.

Over the course of this (hopefully successful) thread, I want to take down notes and comments and the like in a single document so as to build up the DOS machine howto that I intend to write. So I'm calling for your help/opinion/knowledge, anything you have on this subject. Now let's get started!

My basic specs would be:
Pentium 166MHz processor
24MB RAM
2x1GB Harddrives or HD partitions
SoundBlaster compatible Soundcard

This is what I would start out with, and I know it might not be the most perfectest rig you'll find, but mind you, I'm trying to keep it simple and affordable here. And now for your suggestions!

Wow! Great topic! Are you the techno Henning??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Henning @ Dec 30 2006, 03:19 PM) [snapback]272805[/snapback]</div>I think that's a really good choice, but it's much faster than you need. If I recall correctly, DOOM ran at the proper speed on a 486 with clock speed 66Mhz.

That will definitely work, but it's far more than DOS programs can use. Just for DOS stuff, 640K base, and a meg or 2 extended, plus a meg or 2 expanded, would make a killer DOS machine I think. We used to have one like that at home ages ago.

The more the better. 2 Gigs is way more than adequate! :ok:

OK, this is the exciting bit. I would recommend that the perfect DOS machine MUST have a motherboard with ISA slots, so that you can put a genuine 8-bit or 16-bit (not Vibra if 16-bit) Soundblaster card, because this has the genuine almost-obsolete Adlib chip that many DOS games sound really bad without. But no "compatible" Soundblaster card, unless we know the exact specs and they're not junk imitations (i.e. they have the genuine chipset).

Okay, I don't know who the techno Henning is, but I know that I myself am a pretty cool kind of Henning :D

First of all, I have found that 120-133MHz is perfect for pretty much all games, anything beyond that would trigger timer problems in Space Quest and the like. I had a PC with 75MHz which was a tad too slow. 90MHz might just be enough, but I prefer being on the safe side.

As for RAM, I always figured 32MB to be perfect until I found out that some games have problems with more than 24MB. 24MB was also the amount that was considered ideal in my previous PC-building threads (ages ago). Maybe we could incorporate game reports regarding performance/setup etc. in this document of mine :)

I agree that ISA is an absolute must for any DOS machine. I have tried the basic SB16 on various occasions and found it to be adequate. However, I have also used a Compaq ES1868 in the past, and from my experience, this particular model is simply the best among SB16-compatibles. But, I'm open for suggestions!

Well the gang is back but any way moving on to the topic.
Have you thought about the video card 512k-2mb should be enough for most if not all games. I have an old 233mhz hp pavilion with a recovery disk so it runs hardware that is mainly oem and I have been planing to ditch the souncard it has and chuck in an old trident sound card that I have and then run windows98 on it for older windows and some dos games. Since the current sound card is conencted to an amp card so it is quite weird. It's summer holidays over here so i'll do it when I get the time in early 2007.

I was planning on using one of these run-of-the-mill graphics cards, I forgot their name. Didn't give much thought to that.
Question: what is OEM?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Henning @ Jan 1 2007, 12:48 AM) [snapback]272889[/snapback]</div>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origina...t_Manufacturer

FAT16 or FAT32 on HD?
which DOS version?

Either FreeDOS or MS-DOS 6.22, which was my OS of choice on past systems.
As for the filesystem, I'm not sure which one is better. What would you suggest?
Also, thanks for the link.

DOS 6.22 supports FAT16 only, don't know about FreeDOS.

AFAIK, FreeDOS supports FAT-32. So does DOS 7.1.

RAM of 16 to 24 MB will do. I see in your other thread that you already have 2x8 MB of EDO RAM - get 2x4 MB sticks and that'll be your desired 24 MB (Pentium systems require paired memory... unlike 486).

As for Video card... 1 MB - at least. That's good for DOS and sufficient for most Windows games too.

If you're going for FAT-16... DO NOT USE 1 GB PARTITIONS!!! Never-ever!!! With FAT-16 filesystem, cluster size goes up to 20-30 kb. If you have few files but large ones, it'll do. If you have a smattering of small files, you'll end up with a gross waste of space. (been there, done that).

If you want to use both DOS and Windows on this machine, dual hard drives are preferable to a single one, especially if you couple that with a Midi Tower case (3x 5,25" drive bays, so that you still have space for a CD drive) and two internal drive racks (each attached to a different IDE channel). That way, you can quickly shutdown the machine, swap the racks and start the other OS.

As to soundcard compatibility... duh, my personal favorite is ESS 1887, primarily because one of them has been with me for ages and I have no reason to complain. Full Sound Blaster 2 compatibility, stereo sound, built-in volume regulation, MIDI/game port... the works. Personally, I prefer SB2 to SB16... some of the MIDI music in the games sounds way different between the two types (vide Flashback... particularly the outro).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Jan 2 2007, 12:54 PM) [snapback]272997[/snapback]</div> I think that might be what brought down my first windows machine.
FAT-32 it is then. So that makes it FreeDOS
okay, swap racks might be complicated, but I definitely favoured 2 hard drives over one partitioned HD.
I did some research today (not very thorough) but couldn't find anything on the differences between those ESS models. I prefer the 1868 for the same reasons, but I suppose the 1887 would be better, since it seems to be a successor of some sort.

The racks also have one added advantage, though making full use of it can cost quite a bit.

Each rack must be connected to a separate IDE channel, and drives present in both must be jumpered as Master. In the machine's BIOS, set primary and secondary master drives to autodetect.

What do you get? Well, of course swapping the drives will swap the system that boots up. No worries about multiboot, no nothing.

But, if you get a third rack and install it in a 5,25" USB enclosure, you can use that combination to quickly - and very conveniently - transfer data to and from the oldschool unit to your modern computer, including creating complete backups of its drives with whatever drive imaging software you have installed on your modern machine (like Paragon Exact Image that I'm using).

Im wondering if FreeDos is any good for Dos games or does it run another way?

I got a genuine Soundblaster 16 card :P:P:P

Should work for most of them.

On my one im trying to build, I have found an old S3 Trio64V lying around at my place. Anyone know if these are any good for dos systems? Also about that OEM soundcard im planning on going to a computer shop I know of when it repoens later this summer to see I they have any old ESS 1887 because you guys are saying they are3 good and im not to good at soundcards for dos and I wasnt sure about the videocard I found lying around.

How about jus running a virtual pc with Dos on?

Thanks The_Fifth_Horseman

Do you really have to worry about graphics cards?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DLoTTn @ Jan 4 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]273325[/snapback]</div>In my opinion, a custom DOS PC is the only real choice. I've grown
tired of readjusting cycles and frame rates on each and every game.
Also, this thread is about building a PC, not setting up a virtual one,
so the answer to your question would be 'Yes, we do, and we have to
worry about a lot else'.

If I remember the specs, they used to come with 1 or 2 MB of RAM... Should be good.
Computer stores usually don't have such old gear. Better look for second-hand trades.

To a small degree, but it's not critical.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_fifth_horseman @ Jan 5 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]273435[/snapback]</div>Also, try eBay.
Aaah. That's the name I was looking for. Never had any problems with that one.

My S3Trio64V is a 2MB one. Mabey there is 1MB ones as well.

IIRC, there are, as well as 4 MB ones.

That's also the video card emulated by DosBox.

Ok. Thanks for answering the questions.

Ok but which one does dosbox emulate. 2MB or 4MB

That is open to discussion. From my own experience, I'd say that DosBox emulates a card with 1 MB of RAM.

OK thanks for the information.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Henning @ Jan 5 2007, 02:04 AM) [snapback]273356[/snapback]</div>You can create for every game a custom .conf file. And if i remember right you had configure problems in old dos too. Not every game runs with the same settings. And i think you are faster with a .conf file instead of making every time a boot-disc.

Yeah I have the same problem with dos box now that I am trying to play more than I used to with WinXP because back with 98 it was no trouble so it does get annoying.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HomerDOHSimpson @ Feb 4 2007, 08:57 PM) [snapback]277990[/snapback]</div>You can create for every game a custom .conf file. And if i remember right you had configure problems in old dos too. Not every game runs with the same settings. And i think you are faster with a .conf file instead of making every time a boot-disc.
[/b][/quote]
Sounds neat!
So what kind of stuff would I put in these .conf files and how do I assign the various files to the various games so that DOSBox knows which one to use?

I have the same question as Henning. But I also wonder if it is hard as in you have to rewrite every config file for every sperate game and do you have to do much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Henning @ Feb 10 2007, 08:04 PM) [snapback]278740[/snapback]</div>Use multiple shortcuts to DosBox executable and command line options to make them use different config files.
You can use that to run specific games or simply start DosBox with a different configuration.

OK thanks i'll try that. Little update with my DOS machine the monitor is now dead (Screw it).

Now this is a topic I can get into. :)

I am a game collector and love digging out my old copies and reliving my younger days.

I have an older Pentium 400 that I use to play all my old DOS games on. I dual boot between DOS and Win 98. If I boot to DOS I can run Win 3.1 from there and I have an emergency disk that I can boot to Win 95 from if needed. (Yes I actually ran into a Win 95 game that would not run on 98.) When I need to slow it down I have found Moslo does ok with a little experimentation. I just got done playing Ultima IV and had to run Moslo set at 2%. Worked very well for a game created in what, 1985?

ISA is a must. The trickiest situations I have run into involve games that do not support expanded memory and must have the drivers load below 512/640. I have found some downsized mouse and CD drivers that have been invaluable.

I installed both a 5.25 and 3.5 floppy because many of my earlier games are on 5.25 media.

Good luck. My Geezer machine has been more valuable than my newer XP. I think I need to start building a backup.

Out of curiosity... what game was that?

I suggest you use WinImage to back them up, just in case. I had 3,5 floppies break down on me in little over half a decade, despite being used barely once or twice to install the game.

Out of curiosity... what game was that?

Its been a couple years but I am going to find out if you are interested. It was around the time I was playing Toonstruck and Torrin's Passage but I can't remember if it was one of those or another. Only have ever run into it once. Being the underlying architecture is very similar I assumed that it was checking the Win level during installation and game startup.

I always make copies of my 5.25 on 3.5 when I get my hands on an older 5.25 game and keep the 3.5 and 5.25 in the box with the game. But, you are right, I should use WinImage as well.

I was on the auction site in my country and I saw a 5 inch driver and bunch of disks going cheap. To bad I could not log in fast enough to bid 1min remaining. :crybaby:

O.E.M. Original Equipment Manufacturer. If you can get an O.E.M. operating system do so.