I was thinking on how cool it would be if abandonia would have a sister site dedicated to emulation purposes. Does anyone else agree with me?

I dont think we cant do it, but if we can, il support it! :ok:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burger Meister @ Nov 2 2006, 01:57 AM) [snapback]264911[/snapback]</div>Yeah, definetly, but using torrents for example is less the effort, than downloading them one by one.

We've actually been pondering about that idea for some time now, but it is slowly becoming apperant that it will never happen, sadly. At least when it comes to NES and SNES.

I've had long debates with Nintendo about the possibility for such a site, where we work close to them and have strict rules for which games we can host on the site (and which games would only get a review), but Nintendo is very clear. No sites will ever get Nintendo's permission to host any ROMs for either NES or SNES. Which, by AB's rules, means that all these games are forever and ever considered Protected (and since Nintendo is an ESA member, that makes the games ESA Protected as well).

Which leaves Amiga and so on. I can't really say much about that, as I have absolutely no idea about Amiga, and never owned one myself. In fact, I don't think I have ever played a game on an Amiga. Actually, I don't even know what an Amiga looks like.

Then lets go for it! Amiga, Commodore, Spectrum...etc.. emulator site!

And Tom, altough im younger than you, I have owned Amiga, I have played Amiga and I have seen Amiga.

EDIT: And same goes with Commodore.

That Leaves:

-Game gear
-Amiga
-Commodore
-Spectrum
-Master System
-Genesis
-Wonderswan
-Neo Geo
-Neo Geo Pocket
-Turbo Graphix
-Turbo Graphix 16

There's most likely more...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom Henrik @ Nov 2 2006, 11:48 AM) [snapback]264981[/snapback]</div>Erm, Tom, the box scan you provided for Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis is a scan of the Amiga version. Unless you bought it just because you liked the picture, you probably have seen an Amiga.;)

I borrowed it from a friend ;)
He's got alot of boxes, so I grabbed all I could to scan :)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burger Meister @ Nov 2 2006, 12:58 PM) [snapback]264987[/snapback]</div>That's quite a list, actually. Okies. How many of these systems are dead and buried? I.e. which of these systems can you not buy today? I think Commodore 64 is dead, isn't it?

The problem is the following, you see. If the system is still sold somewhere (anywhere), then all the games for that particular system would be illegal to host on the net. Well, more illegal than games for a dead system (It's still copyright theft).

Why?
Quite simple really. Let's take an example with the aforementioned Indiana Jones game for Amiga, and assume that the game is no longer sold, but that the Amiga is.

I am a gamer, and I would like to play that particular Amiga game. I do not own an Amiga, but I know that Abandonia hosts Amiga ROMs for me to freely download. So I head over there and download it and a suitable emulator for my computer. By doing that I am harming the sales of the Amiga system. What I should have done would be to buy the system from the store that is selling it, and then gone on Ebay or simillar and bought a used copy of the game.

By playing games on a system it was not designed for, you are seriously harming the sales for that system - why buy consoles, if you can play all the games on just one system?

For that simple reason we can not host ROMs for active systems.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom Henrik @ Nov 2 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]265041[/snapback]</div>actually you just said that we can but its not nice and harming for systems

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom Henrik @ Nov 2 2006, 06:07 PM) [snapback]265041[/snapback]</div>You can find any of these systems 2nd hand on GameStation, eBay, or Game. :bleh:

If you mean buying them new, then you cannot buy the Spectrum. Amiga, and Commodore anymore.


I have noticed as well that links for Amiga and C64 versions have been added to the game pages. :huh:

I thought I would randomly mention that OBVIOUSLY. Nintendo wouldn't want you to host ROMS when that is the buisness they are going to use with the Wii's virtual console

Well, this was before the Wii was created.

If you are looking for new systems of any of the above, they are not created anymore by their respective companies which means we aren't hurting their sales because all it is is other people selling their old second hands to other people. If amiga was still manufactured I wouldn't want roms/emulators to be added, but it's not sold by it's company anymore.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burger Meister @ Nov 2 2006, 11:58 AM) [snapback]264987[/snapback]</div>I'm something of an emu nut and used to have a ton of roms on my old pc, and I know that roms are illegal unless you own the original copy - ie the cartridge/disc/whatever. Neo Geo and Neo Geo pocket roms are definitely off limits. Also, Sega are still around producing games for other companies and they're not letting go of any of the old Genesis games.

This entry from Wikipedia covers it pretty well -

In some countries, it is legal for an individual to personally make backup copies of a game they own. Individuals may make backup copies for various reasons, perhaps as insurance against losing the game or as redundancy in the event that the original game's medium becomes unreadable. See the section on ROMs and Preservation.

However, in the U.S. it has been illegal since 1983 for a user to create their own backups of video game ROMs. This was decided in the courtc case of Atari vs JS&A. JS&A manufactured a "game backup" device that allowed users to dump their Atari ROMs onto a blank cartridge. JS&A argued that the archival rule allowed for this. The court disagreed, noting that ROM media was not subject to the same volatility as magnetic media (for which the law was created). Thus, not being so relatively vulnerable, ROMs were not applicable under section 17 USC 117.

Some games companies, such as Nintendo, print warnings inside their game manuals that they do not allow users to make backup or archival copies. Whether or not these warnings in this specific form can be considered valid contracts is legally questionable. For an overview of relevant issues, see user agreement (EULA), shrink wrap contract, clickwrap, Fair Use, Fair Dealing and DMCA.



Roms are quite a tricky legal grey area, some are legal, some aren't, some might be legal or not, in some countries they're all illegal, and in other countries they're just not sure. You have to be really careful with hosting roms. The only place I ever really got them was from sites that were entirely prepared to post warez.

if it's going to be emulation within the law, i'd say just provide a site to help with emulation and guides (e.g. guides to setting up PSX emulators/imaging psx games/getting bios legally etc) and have reviews of roms and compatability lists. that way, it would be emulation based but it wouldn't be illegal (as there wouldn't be any rom links/bios links etc) anyway, anyone that desperate to download roms/bios would have to look themselves. so if your careful then you could set up a emulation site

and as for what consoles it should relate to i think it should include (i don't mean roms, i mean the catual emulators):
Playstation
Saturn
Dreamcast
Nintendo 64
Snes
Nes
Game Gear
Sega Master System
Sega Genesis/Mega Drive
Game Boy/Color/Advance
Amiga
C64

and basically any other console under the sun that can be emulated. obviously, the choice of what consoles are actually covered on there is up to whoever runs it (be it tom or kosta or anyone else) but IMO covering emulators wouldn't do any harm (just stay away from the taboo bits like where to dl roms/bios files)

^^^^

I guess that's a safer and better idea.

Whell, we had (and still are...) this conversation on AR. You can check it out-here is the link. I would love to see something like that to happend, but I don`t think that that would happend in the near future...

Why make a site like that? If you need any emulators and emu games - there's plenty of site to go and download the crap out of them. AB and AR are only a few sites, controlled by a small group (owned by one?), making an Emuladonia would result in NOTHING. Why? Because #1 the fact remains that AB has issues of getting games (ESA and stuff), but emu sites have issues of having NO rights to host ANY of the files. If we're having trouble on AB with ESA - there'd be shitload of trouble making an emu site. Plus there's no need for one as I've said. I rest my case.

that isn't totally true, some amiga games are availible for download as long as you have the original game..

I like the way they've done with the latest games (the "get the amiga version here") maybe that could be done with other versions of the games as well?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(faralar @ Nov 5 2006, 10:20 PM) [snapback]265481[/snapback]</div>You say "some" Amiga games, so what's with all the other games? If you're really looking for trouble - then go ahead - make the site, I wash my hands on the whole thing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(faralar @ Nov 5 2006, 09:20 PM) [snapback]265481[/snapback]</div>Heh

That's the general ROM agreement, you can download, but must delete within 24 hours if you do not own the ROM.

Yes but when people download roms they don't delete them even though they don't own the original. The companies aren't so ingenuous so as to ignore this, so they crack on roms download pages because 99 per cent of what's going on there is illegal. If such a site would be associated to Abandonia or owned by Kosta, not only could it become prosecuted --this is not the main problem since most such pages are in practice left alone with their illegal activity--, also Abandonia should be forgetting about keeping friendly relations with companies especially through ESA.

And then, as Troop said, there are plenty of roms sites out there, and I guess that some reviews as well. Creating another one wouldn't be much of a contribution --except for the reviews maybe. True that Abandonia is the coolest brand, but it would be ruined by this enterprise.

Then again, if the site could exist without infuriating companies, perhaps by means limiting itself to some dead systems like Amiga, Commodore, etc., it would be cool and something to seirously consider.

EDIT: The first sentence may be read: "Yes but when *I* download roms *I* don't delete them..." I don't want to sound like a hypocrite. :P

Maybe we should dump the idea of emulation site and make a console-game site!

^^^^

I'm fine for that too, just something to do with the old consoles too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheChosen @ Nov 7 2006, 07:19 AM) [snapback]265624[/snapback]</div>So... so you could download consoles and the cartrages? I'm being sarcastic here, as usual, but unless I missunderstand this is a pretty dumb idea.

No no no. I meant a site which has review's only.